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New Prisons needed ?

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    #32
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users Posts: 9,010 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657904#Comment_120657904

    This act of blaming the Greens singlehandedly for everything is nothing but absolute political illiteracy. The social policies of FF, FG, SD, Lab, SF and the Greens are all largely aligned, and have been for some a long time. The greens could be obliterated from existence tomorrow, and literally nothing would change in terms of policy in this country. That's why the make a good coalition partner: there's no difference between their policies and everyone else's. Yet for some reason they're the bogeyman. You have to face facts - the electorate or Ireland vote overwhelmingly and en-mass for centrist, social democratic parties. It's not foisted on us by some tiny band of evil "woke" masterminds from the Green Party.

    The Greens weren't in power when the FG/Lab government of 2011 said:

    “The Minister (Alan Shatter, FG) agrees with the Review Group’s view that prison overcrowding cannot be solved solely by building more prisons and that further steps are required to reduce the prisoner population.”

    In fact, they didn't even win a singe seat in the 2011 General Election, so didn't even have a TD in the Dail at the time.

    Development of Thornton Hall was finally cancelled in January 2019. The Greens were not in government at the time either. FG and some independents were, with the "confidence and supply" agreement with FF. The Greens had 2 TDs at the time, and were in opposition. It's the same as the way people blame the Greens for introducing the Co2 motor tax system, even though they weren't in Government when it was announced, and every other party were falling over themselves to say it was their idea.



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    #33
    ...Ghost...
    Registered Users Posts: 3,600 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655810#Comment_120655810

    That's complete nonsense. Of course small jail terms would act as a deterrent. Nobody wants to be jailed for any period of time. Being stuck in jail for up to a month because of a minor offense, like an unpaid fine, or driving with no insurance or an expired license would most definitely be a deterrent. It's barking mad to say it wouldn't. What are the "cheap alternatives" you speak of? Do they act as a deterrent, or is it just that they are cheaper?

    We may live in a small country, but Ireland isn't a village and i'm pretty sure that Jack applying for a job outside of his local town could do so without the rest of the country knowing he spent a weekend in jail for not paying his TV license....unless he received a criminal record, which woul show up in a search and hang over him as an impediment to his employment success. Money well spent, as Jack would have most likely paid his license fee, or the fine issued if he hadn't paid.

    The prisons you speak of, you also acknowledge they are expired and need replacing. So, a big prison, or two would be a great idea to focus all the resources into one place rather than spread it around multiple locations and being a bigger drain on the public purse. Rebuilding the old prisons, especially on the existing sites would cost far more than selling the higher value land and building on a larger footprint outside the cities.

    What additional infrastructure do you imagine a place like Mullingar would need for a large capacity prison? Drop a pin within a couple of clicks of the M4/N4 merging and you have good access roads and all other infrastructure needed to build a large scale prison. Mullingar was just a suggestion by the way. Could be any number of similar sites, including Portlaoise, but it would need a biger site, so maybe a few miles N/E just off the M7 slip at Madam's Road would be a better location.

    Some existing staff would be inconvenienced, while others would be better off. It's not a good reason to hold back progress because some staff members will either lose their job, or have longer commutes.

    Stay Free



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    #34
    Lucca CoolS Pizzeria
    Posts: 0 ✭ Lucca CoolS Pizzeria


    Ireland must be the only country in the world where building critical infrastructure is somehow always a fools errand unless that infrastructure is in Dublin.



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    #35
    FGR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭FGR


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658452#Comment_120658452

    Gardaí are touring the country every day of the week transferring remand prisoners.

    It's something the Commission for the Future of Policing is looking to change - as it's a very large number of man hours. Does it mean more jobs via more Prison Officers? Sure - and worth every penny as far more personnel are needed.



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    #36
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659044#Comment_120659044

    I accept your argument, however have you ever heard of a thing called "the Metro".... 🤣



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    #37
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649452#Comment_120649452

    I'm not joking but one of the arguments made against closing down Mountjoy prison was that most of the inmates' families lived nearby...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #38
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657543#Comment_120657543

    All non-trial hearings (committal hearings and the like) should be by video link.

    There's endless prison service and garda man-hours wasted on shuttling crims around the place, even within Dublin.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #39
    downtheroad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667100#Comment_120667100

    Laughing away here. Why am I not surprised. And those family members would have all the time in the world to travel around the country to visit their loved ones in prison on account of them not having any jobs to go to of course.



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    #40
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,365 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    AFAIK if your sentence in Spain is 24 months or less you don't do any jail time.



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    #41
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    In Ireland you don't do any jail time until your 301st conviction

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #42
    twowheelsonly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭twowheelsonly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660391#Comment_120660391


    No they're not... Gardaí haven't escorted prisoners from Jails to court since pre-covid. They bring fresh committals from the District Courts to jail alright but that's about it - and that will (usually) be from the local court to the local prison.

    A new jail isn't going to be built any time soon but a way of creating bed spaces might be to deport all the foreign nationals in our prisons. 600+ of them from a prison population of around 4,000. IMO if they've done something bad enough to end up in jail then it's highly unlikely that they're going to be productive citizens on their release. There's exceptions of course but that's going to be the case for the vast majority.



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