Dun Laoghaire Thread. No traffic, commuting, transport chat.

Again correct and I agree with most of the points above.

However I do have some sympathy or understanding on the transfer of a portion of lpt to counties who are not as fortunate as DLR in terms of population or property valuation. They have infrastructure and services to maintain also.

Flakey customers.

Yep, but would it not be fairer for central govt to make up the shortfall for other counties.

It shouldnt be Jim in Sandyford paying tax on his home for roads in Roscommon.

It seems profoundly unfair to introduce a tax on property to pay for local services and then divert over a third of the cash.

With the extra money, we may have seen a swimming pool at DL baths! :)

That story comes out every year when the weather gets good from the 99 vendors to boost sales, used to be that there wouldn't enough stock of them to last the summer

One of the primary functions of government is the distribution of wealth across the economy. If central government were to make up the funding centrally they would have to raise the money somewhere and in turn that would have to be paid for. So Sandyford Jim would end paying for it anyway. At least this way there can be a local say as to how the money is spent.

Overall, makes for a fairer and less divisive society.

End of lectures for the evening 😁

Why would I, they're going to vote regarding the imposition of LPT as if they are in the prior category anyway!

Coincidently the release of new census data yesterday indicates that the increased population to 5.1m is driven largely by migration.

Interestingly, most of these migrants want to live on the east coast. Because I would suggest, that is where all the services are! So, looking at demographic trends we can't have everybody living in Dublin and surrounds, so the rest of the country (incl Roscommon) will have to be made more attractive to live, in terms of available services.

These counties, with their current demographic could never afford to provide the services that we enjoy in DLR and become attractive to live in, hence the need to transfer wealth.

Bit of a chicken and egg predicament really!!!

But the residents are not receiving the full benefit from the LPT, so surely it would be unfair to charge them more.

DLR reidents only recieve 65% of their LPT Revenue. The rest of it is transferred out of the county and out of Dublin altogether.

1 in 3 properties in DLR are therefore not contributing to LPT funded services in their own council. Crazy stuff!

In the UK, Council tax stays in your local council and pays for services including waste collection.

So its fair that you pay more, as you get more back.

An increase in LPT for DLR just charges DLR residents more so they can give more to rural counties.

DLR residents would be out of pocket and wont see the benefit.

I agree with your principle, but I would argue it is the govts job to invest centrally in areas that require additional infrastructure in Mayo & Roscommon, not the job of private residents in County Dublin.

The LPT is based specifically on the value of your own home and its only fair that if you are being asked to pay a local tax to your local council, the proceeds should be invested locally.

I'd have no issue with rural counties recieving a greater amount of centralised funding, because the monies used to pay for that funding are generated nationally and souced from Income Tax.

The problem for me is not the cross subsidisation, it’s that the government sold LPT on the strength of it being a local tax for local services. If it’s not that, it’s just a tax and should be collected by revenue as IT or something similar. What’s the point of creating a new tax to do the opposite of what it says and then give councils the ability to set that tax rate but not collect or spend it some potion of it?

There was some official opening of a new facility at a public park from Mary Hanafin & Darragh O'Brien in the Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown area yesterday.

Does anyone here know where that was opened yesterday. I watched some pictures of it on the news on VM2 last night.

Exactly.

Taking away the focus of investment and development from the east is a hell of a lot bigger issue than LPT redistribution.

Successive Governments have given mere lip service to prioritising a focus on regional cities and towns and their rural hinterlands, for 50 odd years or more.

The National Spatial Strategy expired 3 years ago and its successor, the National Planning Framework isn't even fully operational yet.

To my mind, it's one of the most important policy issues for economic growth, the housing crisis and climate sustainability and yet its stuck in the weeds while we have a rather random and aimless Project Ireland 2040 scattering tens of billions around with little or no strategy.

Did I say they were "left over"? No. I know they are there for a reason. Nobody said anything about taking them away.

The suggestion was they could be a hundred meters further out and still hold the same function adding a top notch bathing spot on the inside of them.

They do not need to be dumped where they were dumped.

Interesting take on the issue from Jennifer O'Connell in this mornings IT.

Kinda sums it up really, particularly that "money and services must follow" !

and

I don't think that you understand the difference between taxing income and taxing wealth. LPT in principle, was designed to transfer from wealthy to less wealthy areas. The wealth of an area is best reflected by its properties and available services.

The examples above involve taxing income, whereas LPT is the first real attempt to tax and transfer wealth in the economy. We are already amongst the most heavily taxed individuals in terms of income and you want to tax more?

The current massive surplus which is probably temporary would be better utilised reducing our current massive debt, on which we are paying massive interest every year.

BTW and before you start, while I do believe in the principle of taxing and transferring wealth, there are better and fairer models of collecting lpt, than the one currently being used.