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Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

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    #1142
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658480#Comment_120658480

    Of course, who hasn't done it and plenty older than children would still do it.

    That leads to the question of how do you know when to disregard the results. It can't be because you didn't get the answers you expected.



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    #1143
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658437#Comment_120658437

    Where is this opinion poll?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #1144
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659588#Comment_120659588

    I believe 70pc refers to members of the public who participated in the public consultation on this legislation.



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    #1145
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658480#Comment_120658480

    I'm not sure he is right. Where is the poll exactly?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #1146
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659606#Comment_120659606

    Oh right OK. There is no opinion poll. Complete stretch to make that claim. @One eyed Jack he is in fact wrong. You can't claim 70pc of the Irish public are against the proposed law. Its a nonsense claim. If he said 70% of respondents to the public consultation fair enough.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #1147
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659645#Comment_120659645

    I think you're right that there is no current opinion poll on this legislation.

    All we have is the public consultation, most of whom disapproved of the legislation. So even though this isn't an opinion poll, it's interesting nonetheless that the members of the public most familiar with the legislation at the time, opted to consider it on a negative basis.

    That aside, I don't even think an opinion poll conducted today would be useful, because most people cannot digest legislation on the basis of a title and some 2-line description. Most people need time to digest legislation and its potential and actual effects in full.

    But because there isn't much public debate on the legislation, we can't (yet) conduct an opinion poll whose results carry weight.



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    #1148
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659563#Comment_120659563

    Have you read the submissions? Some of them make no sense, some of them are actually full of hatred

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #1149
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,772 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658437#Comment_120658437

    It must have been a very narrow survey sample indeed if they reckon the votes for FF/FG will be that low. Not a chance that's remotely accurate. Except for the Greens. They're fcuked.

    image.png




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    #1150
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,772 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659054#Comment_120659054

    That's the problem with these laws. They are wide open to interpretation. Your paragraph above shows this. You say that saying 'should be stopped' can be interpreted as a legitimate threat whereas others would argue that it's a perfectly lawful statement to make. It doesn't say stop the person through violence. It could easily be interpreted as legally protest, meet with, lobby the senator, vote out of power etc. to change whatever they want changed.



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    #1151
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659624#Comment_120659624


    No no, I meant Leo’s not wrong, when he said this -

    Taoiseach Leo Varadkar defends disregarding the results of the public consultation on "hate speech" laws, arguing that "very often" such consultations are hijacked by "campaigning groups" and are not "reflective of public opinion."


    (it’s in the pearl-clutching tweet posted by Gript in that post)



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    #1152
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659678#Comment_120659678

    No but I meant in general with any research.

    How do you decide whether to accept it or not.



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    #1153
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659924#Comment_120659924

    A lot of the 70% against it didn't make sense or was ranting with a lot of bigotry thrown in. The consultation was about how to respond to hate speech legislatively- and a good bit of the response to the consultation was to respond with hate speech.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #1154
    lmimmfn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    People are absolutely f***ing insane if they are pro this bill. Guilty until proven innocent. No clear definition of "hate". Anyone can be done, all users posts in current affairs are liable to be arrested(and comment against refugees etc.).

    This billis has a huge impact on free speech and gives the government legal force to enforce their view.

    It's shocking we have even ended up here.



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    #1155
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660340#Comment_120660340

    Yes, it’s shocking that we’ve ended up at the point where posts like this are so factually inaccurate that you just scare the living daylights out of people?

    Do I have reservations about this bill? Yes, but scaremongering tactics like you’ve posted here do not help in anyway.

    Also, more often than not, public consultations contain significantly more people against a proposal than those who are in favour. By their nature they’re inviting people who are against the proposal to tell them why and see if something better can be worked.



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    #1156
    DarkJager21
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662478#Comment_120662478

    There is no scaremongering when it comes to a bill that is literally introducing the concept of a thought crime. Nobody in their right mind can support this as is.



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    #1157
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662593#Comment_120662593

    So anyone who says anything about anything is going to be done for a hate crime.

    I will call that bollocks and exit stage left, as there is clearly no talking to anyone.



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    #1158
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662609#Comment_120662609

    I think it's more the lack of clarity that's pissing people off than anything else. Certainly me, anyway.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #1159
    DarkJager21
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662609#Comment_120662609

    You might want to go read the part that bothers people the most before you go getting your knickers in a twist. You might change your tune in a few years when you make an innocuous comment on a thread about wanting to give a referee in a match a dig, somebody actually does it and then they point to your post as a motivator for it.


    It will be purely on you to prove you did not intend that outcome, guilty until proven innocent. I don't give a **** who this bill is intended to protect, there is no way in hell we can have anything with such a proviso in law. No way.



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    #1160
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662619#Comment_120662619

    If you advocate the use of violence a referee in jest or otherwise it should come back on you because it is stupid thing to do. I would not loose any sleep over people being held accountable for bad behaviour not matter what their excuse is.



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    #1161
    DarkJager21
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662662#Comment_120662662

    That's a pure altar boy response, I bet you're an absolute angel. And if you can find that level of offence to a completely normal reaction to a competitive event, that's even more reason for this to be fucked in the bin. To stop people like you abusing it.



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    #1162
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662619#Comment_120662619

    Anyone who says they want to give a referee a dig because of the result of a sports match needs to give their heads a wobble.

    If you advocate for that and someone does it then you, and the person who followed you, are literal dumbasses.

    What an absolute stupid example. As I said, no talking to some people because their minds are made up.

    Proper unhinged bile from some people here.



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    #1163
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,964 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Over 8k and 11k posts. No doubt if Boards worked properly, we could find at least one comment from each of ye on some thread here over the years that could be utilised by this incompletely legislation. That's the worry really, and while I don't think that alone is reason enough to stop the creation of a new law, I think it most definitely should put the brakes on it until it's better worded at the very least. Retrospective action is not the way law should be written, not when the issues are being clearly pointed out before it gets to being enacted.

    Legislation like this could genuinely be the end of Boards and social media. Wait... maybe it mightn't be so bad if it gets rid of social media... Hmmmm...



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    #1164
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    At 17:30 today, June 13th, the Bill will be debated in the Seanad.



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    #1165
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    McEntee boldly stated in her opening statement that "Freedom of Speech is not an absolute right" while disregarding all international human rights concerns raised by citizens relating to the Bill. Are they disregarding Article 40.6.1 of our Constitution? McEntee admitted that she deliberately kept the definition of "hate" broad in order to ensure easier convictions and that the Bill is being demanded on the back of an EU framework directive. The next bit is comedy. First to speak was Fine Gaels Senator Barry Ward who dismissed restrictions that the Bill would introduce on free speech by saying that Irish and European Courts have ensured fair legal procedures. Keep in mind that his statement comes after HIS colleague (McEntee) had just stated the Bill's lack of a definition for hate was in place to ensure higher rates of prosecution. This is what we are dealing with. 


    Citizens are 'fringe commentators' when they challenge arrogant, self-regarding, authoritarian politicians. “Fringe”, sounds hateful to me. Straight out of the Justin Trudeau book of totalitarian propaganda...I'm surprised she didn't invoke the government's go-to slur "far right".. us lowly proles who dare dissent. "US social media personalities"......

    https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/oireachtas/2023/06/13/fringe-commentators-and-us-social-media-personalities-distorting-hate-crime-law-mcentee/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


    https://twitter.com/RonanMullen/status/1668717132488622085


    Senator Flynn "Unfortunately you just can't educate some people". I dread to think of the "worster aul jazz" to come

    Untitled Image




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    #1166
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713939#Comment_120713939


    Citizens are 'fringe commentators' when they challenge arrogant, self-regarding, authoritarian politicians. “Fringe”, sounds hateful to me.


    Will you be pursuing a criminal complaint against Ms. McEntee for her use of the word ‘fringe’ when referring not to Irish citizens, but to fringe commentators such as Elon Musk and Donald Trump Junior who, to the best of my knowledge anyway, are not Irish citizens -

    Proposed new hate crime legislation has been subjected to “deliberate misinformation and distortion” from “fringe commentators and US-based social media personalities”, Minister for Justice Helen McEntee has said.

    Donald Trump jnr described the legislation as “insane” in a tweet in recent months while Elon Musk, owner and chief executive of Twitter, responded to a separate tweet about the legislation and said it was “very concerning”.

    https://archive.ph/FZVut


    “Us lowly proles”… Jesus Christ 😂



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    #1167
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662997#Comment_120662997

    Indeed. Just when one might think the last of catholic Ireland was in the ground and the po-faced holier than thou forelock tuggers to authority crawthumpers kissing the bishop's ring with it, that undercurrent in the Irish psyche is very much still around. The tune is the same, only the lyrics have changed.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1168
    200mg
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭200mg


    Seems they are drafting it in such a vague way to be able to "Get you" for something. Then turn your gaff over and alike. Would not be wanting to house share in this climate.



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    #1169
    tesla_newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120715815#Comment_120715815

    Indeed , we’ve merely swapped priggish Catholic setters of morality for priggish progressives



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    #1170
    alan partridge aha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,222 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    I'd this us passed as is I'm out of boards.



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    #1171
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,964 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Aye. Opinions will get very quiet imo if passed in its current state. Mods will quit, boards will be closed down. /extreme yet plausible example

    There really is a bang of "Shut up peasant, you know not what you speak of" off of her. Never liked her, but for no particular reason other than I thought she was crap. Now I have a particular reason, snobby cow*.

    *No offense to cows intended

    (Won't be able to post that if this passes...)



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