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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    That’s fantastic- if we ever actually build the offshore wind farms on the west coast- which is a big if.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    That’s an interesting video- I’ve only had a chance to watch the first 10mins- I’ll watch the rest tomorrow- but when solar and wind exceed the system demand curve why can’t a grid scale”eddi switch” divert excess to battery’s or district heating or something?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Because grid scale batteries aren't yet reliable. Ask Eirgrid/Esb how many of them have caught fire to date. The media suspiciously aren't reporting any issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The entire natural world disagrees with you.

    Pretty much everything alive is fuelled by solar power, while continents are shaped by the wind



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    West, south, north, all are good. The only thing standing in the way are fossil fuel lobbiests and their shills. The technology is fully mature.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The future grid will have a thriving market in electrons. Grid servicing companies will buy and sell power and frequency based on real time supply and demand, while domestic and commercial users will defer consumption when supply is low, and even sell power to the grid from their own storage and micro generation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Remember torrenting, the hugely disruptive file sharing technology. Millions of people shared bandwidth to be able to access cheaper digital files.

    Distributed networks have a lot of power

    A million BEVs connected to the grid each of which having 40+kWh batteries. That's a huge amount of storage for load shedding and balancing



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Electrons? What use are they? They move a couple of metres a year (max). Electricity is an electromagnetic wave, not a few electrons moving.

    What is "buy and sell power and frequency"? You clearly haven't a clue what you are talking about. Frequency is kept at 50Hz on the basis of the thermal generators spinning at 3000rpm. Other generators use multiple poles to match the 3000rpm despite spinning slower. As long as supply = demand, the grid frequency is 50Hz. Otherwise it's 49.xxHz if demand exceeds supply or 50.xxHz if supply exceeds demand. Eirgrid tries to keep it between 49.8-50.2Hz. There's no such thing as buying and selling frequency.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I think you're missing the point I was making



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    That you don't know what you're talking about? Nope, didn't miss that. Not a single element of your post is correct. There will never be an electron market. No one can ever buy or sell "frequency". The other stuff can happen already (and is not some sage future prediction from you) but whether it does or indeed should, is down to human behaviour and market conditions.

    But yeah, congratulations on posting worthless misinformation and further contributing to global warming through associated data transfer and hosting requirements.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    What do electricity meters measure (for billing purposes)?

    What services do frequency regulation grid services provide?

    Post edited by Akrasia on


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You can cut out the wide eyed innocent sales pitch of you not being aware of this report until you were forced to acknowledge it. You knew about this report from the minute it left the presses. As the king of the links dumpers if it had of been good news for Ryan and his fellow lunatics you would have been dumping it here morning noon and night since. Instead you attempted to mitigate the damage by dumping links from a green shill on LNG and when that didn`t work, you then attempted your usual distract game this time using EDF and France. Both of which fell flat on their faces.

    This is a report commission by Ryan on our energy security. You can hop around it like a flea on a hot-plate, but attempting to ignore or distract from what it says on our energy security is you only attempting to fool yourself as you are fooling nobody else who has even half a brain.

    Ryan trying to hamstring the report on LNG has failed miserably. On LNG this report has only further emphasised what the CRU, Eirgrid and posters here have been saying for a long time. That without an LNG facility we do not, nor will we have, energy security. It also emphasises, (even though it is and has been blindingly obvious), that without adequate gas storage and meaningful secondary fuel reserves we are also very much lacking in energy security. The failings in all three are due to the fruitcake who commissioned this report, Ryan, and the lunatic green fringe that have been cheering him on



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,536 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Interesting that every video George Lee shares in his report has comments turned off on it, not open for discussion, dangerous times...




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Greens answer to everything is increase taxes. The greens should rename themselves The Tax Party. I only hope they are wiped out in the next election.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Now so. Turns out that the Government’s attempt to improve the country economically and the economic suicide mission are incompatible with one another.

    Which one gets sacrificed?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well if this thread is anything to go by, can you blame them



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sounds like we need to knuckle down a lot more and also come up with a lot more actions

    As for the economics of it all, this report shows it is absolutely possible to reduce emissions and grow GDP at the same time as most EU countries are doing exactly that




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,536 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    The near 40% of emissions caused by agriculture v's road and rail transport accounting for 5% is the beauty that does it for me. Households pay the highest environmental taxes at €207 per tonne of carbon dioxide equivalent emitted, whereas the agriculture sector pays by far the lowest environmental taxes at just €3 per tonne of greenhouse gases emitted.

    The punter in ireland returns to the stonage via taxes and emissions policies to accommodate the export of cheap subsidised meat yet has the tiniest impact. Looks like I'm basically paying for the Big Mac for anyone wanting one in London.




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    If you don't know the answer to such basic questions, I'd suggest learning a little more about the physics of what you are talking about before posting nonsense. Electricity meters measure voltage and current, which can be used to calculate the electrical energy usage in kWh. See your Junior cert science book if you need more information.

    I don't understand your second question. If you are asking what frequency regulating services are, they are mechanisms to keep the system frequency at 50Hz. Basically they are forms of reserve (when a generator is intentionally run below it's maximum output and this headroom can pick up or drop output to keep the system stable, using electromagnetics or electronic controllers to determine how to respond automatically). To you and I, we don't necessarily care what the frequency is unless you happen to be trying to use a device designed for a 60Hz system in a 50Hz socket or vice versa. It is merely a quality indication of if supply equals demand. However to sensitive grid equipment, operating away from 50.00Hz means they are trying to restore equilibrium and can be slightly less stable while doing so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Do you want higher food prices?

    Maybe we tackle less existential parts of the energy budget first and get to food when the technology to produce zero carbon food is more mature



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    That's not true. And even if it was, the greens don't control the ministry of finance



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Actually, now that I've had a chance to go through the actual report from the EPA, its become apparent that the govt may be subject to further legal action to force them into making more drastic cuts in emissions.

    The original climate action plan was struck down in 2019 by the Supreme Court. What we currently have is what replaced it. As the replacement still does not have any chance (by the looks of it base don the EPA report) of allowing Ireland to meet emission targets, then it can also be challenged through the courts again.

    If this were to happen, its a safe bet that the courts would, again, strike down the existing climate action plans and force the govt into making a new set of actions which would allow Ireland to achieve its targets.

    If that happens, its very likely to fall onto the head of the next govt, which gave me pause for a chuckle, can you imagine the howls from Mary Lou et al. If such a case is taken, I think you can expect to see ER retained in his current position as it would suit everyone if he took the flak. Even if he loses his seat he could be appointed as Minister through the Senator route

    Just to note, the report also excludes a number of existing emission reduction actions because the authors could see no path to implementation for them. This could be addressed by further action from govt which may allow for those to be included and bring us closer to the targets though I'd wager we'll still be a long way off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Irrelevant, when our pension funds disappear because a politician or corporate ass is using ESG to virtue signal rather than concentrating on return on investment. EROI matters to us, turns out a lot, when it comes to our current standard of living, the energy losses involved in the "hydrogen economy" schemes mean investors will lose money.

    Hydrogen is not really a fuel at all. There are no underground reservoirs of hydrogen to tap into. It must be produced, spending more energy producing it than you get back when you burn it. The cheapest way to produce hydrogen is to steam-reform methane, and that produces lots of CO2. The high cost of producing hydrogen is just the beginning of problems with it.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Did you miss where I said you can cut out the wide eyed innocence sales technique of being unaware that a report on energy security, commissioned and paid for by Ryan has found that the complete lack of energy security is due to no LNG capability, no gas storage and totally inadequate secondary fuel reserves as nobody with even half a brain is now buying it. All three of which are the result of Ryan and his Green Party policies which have been cheered on at every turn by his worshipers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Take out the Ryanair emissions out of that which are all attributed to Ireland no matter where the flight goes to and from and distribute those across the countries and look at the graph then. This chart was discussed previously here.

    Did you read it. 2020. Remember 2020 when everyone say on their holes at home. Agriculture stayed going as it's a necessity. Also, don't forget that 60% of Irelands manufacturing output uses inputs from agriculture. The numbers, while correct, do not take into account the up stream value the ag industry provides.

    We've already got an unelected green in cabinet and it's a joke. No one should be in the Dáil unless theve been elected in to it. And Ryan and his party will most likly be voted out in the next election. There's no way he should be let back in unless he's voted in, and no way should he be serving on government unless he's in government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Why be so coy. If you have information, come out and say it

    And gridscale batteries won't be Lithium Ion batteries. They'll almost certainly be redox batteries or hybrid batteries. These cannot catch fire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    That sounds like a plan, but unfortunately it`s not a plan E.U. greens or the Irish Green party have shown any consideration for.

    They were all happily pushing their policies on agriculture regardless until the election result in the Netherlands and the resulting political pushback in the E.U. stopped them in their tracks. With E.U. wide elections next year that is very much in the vein of the often quote sentiment " Depend upon it sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully"



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Ryan and co will likely lose seats at the next election. But it won’t be because of their performance, it’ll likely be due to Sinn Féin being more strategic with their candidates and not running just one candidate in constituencies where they can easily get 2 elected.

    The people who suffer most from demented GP policies live in constituencies where there are no GP TDs to remove from their seats



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