Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

People love a good whinge. If you take a step back it’s not hard to recognise that cases like these being taken can actually be good in the long run. They can help fine tune the State’s understanding of how best to handle refugees and asylum seekers in a way that minimises the risk of legal challenge. We can’t change the fact that refugees and asylum seekers have, at the very least, rights under international law that entitle them to be treated fairly with fair procedures — so if this particular woman’s rights were violated, then the Court will find accordingly and the State will have to learn from it. The trick is to use these disputes and what we have learned from this crisis to build a more robust framework.

A war broke out in Europe. It has caused a spike of refugees that has put a strain on our system, and systems elsewhere in Europe. Ireland has traditionally looked on at wars on the European continent as a relatively poor country. We are now a relatively wealthy country so it is new ground for our State to be in a contributory position as a host country for refugees following the outbreak of such a major European conflict. Anyone who thinks that something like this can be handled in a way that ensures absolutely fair and equitable outcomes for Ireland is deluding themselves.

No control, no enforced deportation

The problem, the reason we have to take people in in such numbers, is our birth rate. We simply aren't having enough children. We've fallen well below replacement.

Either serious social reform occurs to encourage Irish women to have more children or we have no choice other than lax immigration policies.

The calculation is we'll get trouble from some newcomers but most will be able to contribute to society.

I'm surprised how hundreds of pages go by without anyone mentioning the core problem which is our demographics. The government's well aware of this which is why they act as they do.

They don't want to tell women you can't have that career or ban abortions or do anything to get the birth rate up.

Soon there will literally not be enough people of working age.

These things will have to change within a generation. No amount of immigrants is going to fix our population crisis. It's sticking plaster.

The Irish Independent had a front page story yesterday that the government is going to lift the ban on nursing homes converting to asylum accommodation. This ban was originally introduced because the government was concerned at the numbers that were applying to make this switch. However they will have to watch two years before changing to asylum/refugee accommodation. I'm watching this closely as someone with a parent in private nursing home care.

As for why so many nursing homes have been looking at becoming asylum/refugee accommodation instead, it is reported by the newspaper that the latter was believed to be more lucrative.

The question is where do the old people go if no nursing homes are available ?

I'm struggling to understand what he "admitted to" there. He said that some applicants are able to stay on humanitarian grounds even if their applications are rejected and gave the example of countries who don't let their citizens leave and / or won't accept them back. Now, granted that I personally don't blame any person for trying to escape a system like that, I can imagine it's difficult to address a situation like that wholly satisfactorily. It didn't exactly sound like Varadkar was parading it as a good thing, more so just difficulty with some cases.

I mean, what would you have us do with these types of applicants as an alternative? We obviously aren't going to just shoot them so what, imprison them indefinitely or simply incur huge costs by constantly attempting to somehow force another country to take them?

But of course, that Gript dude just wanted the one-liner and the headline . . .

I mentioned here recently that Australia is struggling with the exact same problem. Deportation is a very complex, messy and expensive procedure and it may actually be less hassle and costly for the country not to deport some failed asylum seekers. It doesn't just involve putting someone in the back of a squad car and driving them to the airport.

There are apparently tens of thousands of failed asylum seekers in Australia who have not been deported, around 70,000 in total, and that is a country with a very strict immigration system (much admired and lauded by the anti-immigration crowd in fact).

Why wouldn't a country accept back one of their citizens? Wouldn't there be consequences for doing that? For example if India doesn't take back someone (just an example) then visas for Indian citizens could be back or something?

It really is ridiculous.

Yes why would they accept them back , when you have sucker countries who will have to keep them .

Because they are from that unless they can prove they are really fleeing for their lives which nearly always falls apart when/if you look into there stories, it's like the people who have applied for asylum here and are granted to stay here, once they have their irish passport off they go back to the country they have fled for a holiday to see family. It's pretty simple for a guy like me who doesn't have a university degree to see the majority arriving here are here for the gravy train.

We're a very generous caring open minded nation, very happy to help people who need genuine asylum, but jaysus what's going on now is an utter p#ss take, unless you have skin in the game Stazdas your head is really stuck in the sand, how can you defend the carry on, every service is bursting at the seems and importing more people that are here to suck of the tit of generous welfare system just seems crazy to me, in a place like mahon( working class area) in cork 700 modular homes are been handed out to ukrainians in the coming weeks/months, while three generations of irish families are living in a house, on a housing list for years. Just madness madness

So, the government in their wisdom are encouraging low earners (typically migrants earn 21% less the indigenous Irish) who will require support in the form of HAP, medical/social welfare etc during their working life to enter the workforce whilst ignoring the emigration of educated, skilled Irish citizens who are typically higher earners and thus larger contributors to the coffers and requiring less government support. Is this the economic model they are pursuing?

Also...you know that you're up **** Creek when the leader of your country says and I quote 'I don't want any person of colour to be held back in this country'. Emmm sorry for being born pasty white! Do I not count too!

Its totally ridiculous that a decision is made that a person has no right to be here but they are let stay anyway because their own country won't take them back.

This clown is supposed to be running the country but seems to be just shrugging his shoulders and saying they have no right to be here but its just too hard to do something about it.