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Abbey Slurry Tank - Front ball valve assembly not allowing suction? (See Photos)

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  • 03-06-2023 4:56pm
    #1
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭


    My old Abbey slurry tank will spread slurry fine but will not suck it in. I know the engine is not the problem as I removed the thick black rubber hose leaving the engine and found that the engine is sucking and blowing fine. I have narrowed the problem down to the vertical front ball value tube assembly at the front of the tank. This is the one directly over the engine. This assembly will blow air out fine but will not allow air to be sucked in. 

    1.jpg
    2.jpg
    3.jpg

    I have a suspicion that something is blocked inside this tube that is not allowing the balls to move freely. This is my hunch. I have never opened one of these before. Do you think I should open it? Or would that damage the tube assembly in some way? There seems to be two nuts at the bottom of the tube. One bolt and nut travelling horizontally through the tube itself (i have no idea what this nut and bolt is doing) and one vertical nut at the very bottom which seems to be holding on the bottom cover. 

    P.S. I'm guessing it will be hard to get off the nuts as they have never been opened since the tank left the factory probably about 30 years ago. Any tips on how to get off the nuts? 



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    #2
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    Do you think i should open this assembly?



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    #3
    dohc turbo2
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭dohc turbo2


    Just take off next 2, and remove cover to c, nut 1 is just a tee piece holding nut 2,



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    #4
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120674537#Comment_120674537

    Thanks. I didn't know if I would be affecting the pressure gauge at the top of the unit by opening the assembly. I was tempted to take off nut no.2 but I didn't know what was making that pressure gauge work, and if taking off the cover at the bottom would break the pressure gauges operation.



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    #5
    dohc turbo2
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭dohc turbo2


    Doubt it, it's just a cover plate with a rubber around it



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    #6
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120674617#Comment_120674617

    That's correct. There is a rubber seal. it. I'd imagine after putting the cover back on afterwards the seal would not be as good as before but i'm sure it would still be 90% good.

    What can i expect when i take off that cover, is there a ball inside that i will be able to push up and down to check that it is moving freely?



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    #7
    dohc turbo2
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭dohc turbo2


    Ball inside correct, that goes from inlet to outlet



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    #8
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120674658#Comment_120674658

    Do you have any idea why this ball valve assembly would allow air to be blown out into the tank but not allow air to be sucked in?



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    #9
    green daries
    Registered Users Posts: 2,258 ✭✭✭green daries


    The long pipe from the pump up is layered and can sometimes collapse inside and look perfect outside the ball assembly can either be blocked or the ball is gone oval shape 🤔

    If you have thr the pressure off the tank and the lever switch to suck or fill as they say does it do the same thing



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    #10
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120674700#Comment_120674700

    When this issue first arose, i assumed the black pipe leading from the engine unit to the ball valve assembly was the problem as it was significantly damaged. So i replaced this black hose but the same problem persisted. You can see it is a brand new hose in the images i provided.

    It may well have been a piece from the old hose that got sucked into the ball valve assembly unit that has caused the problem. Hopefully all that is required to fix this problem is to take out what ever bit of rubber from the old hose that got sucked into the ball valve assembly. You are worrying me saying the ball might have turned oval shaped. That sounds like i would need a new ball, or worse yet would need to replace the entire ball valve assembly unit which would probably cost €200 or more i presume.

    As you can see in the images, i have removed the upper black hose. I then tested to see if the outlet from the ball valve assembly was sucking and blowing from that outlet. And it would only blow outwards but would not suck in. That is how i was able to narrow down the problem to the ball valve assembly unit. I had previously tested the engine separately and found that it was both sucking and blowing correctly. So no stuck veins or anything like that.



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    #11
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    The ball might have swollen and stuck inside. You might need a replacement. Open it up and see how it moves.

    Too much oil into the pump can cause then to swell.

    Should always release the pressure by returning the handle to centre or pulling out the ring on the calves at bottom of black pipe I think does same job.



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    #12
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120674730#Comment_120674730

    When this problem first arose the engine was actually very low in oil. Almost gone in fact. So i filled it up with new oil in the hope that was the problem but it didn't fix it unfortunately.

    So it sounds like they sell the ball separately? That's good. Hopefully they still sell the balls from this model which is from the early 1990s.



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    #13
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    Is there any type of grease i should put on the ball to ensure it moves freely in future? I was going to put WD40 on it but was worried that might damage any seals or something inside the assembly unit. Not sure how corrosive WD40 is.

    Perhaps some good old tractor grease would be handy to rub all over the ball?



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    #14
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    By engine - I assume you mean the pump on the tanker. You'll need put oil into the pump to the correct level and set the drip rate to ensure lubrication is set correctly. I think for Abbey it is 50 drops per min - approx 1 drop per sec.

    If you are running out of oil the drip rate might be too high and the oil has swollen the ball preventing it moving.

    As for replacement balls looks like they are either 80mm or 100mm:

    https://parts.gkennedyagrisales.com/collections/slurry-and-manure-application/products/100-mm-rubber-floating-ball
    https://parts.gkennedyagrisales.com/collections/slurry-and-manure-application/products/80-mm-rubber-floating-ball


    There are some links to the manual in this thread so you can check the dropper rate.



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    #15
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120674751#Comment_120674751

    Don't think so - just give the inside of the housing a bit of a clean and that should be all.



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    #16
    cjpm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,470 ✭✭✭cjpm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675043#Comment_120675043

    Hi Funky. Quick one for you. I changed the ball in my tanker as there is slurry getting through occasionally when the Tank is fully. New ball made no real difference. Are some of those balls plastic and more made from rubber? The one I got seems like a hard plastic. It’s rubbish at shutting out the slurry anyway particularly if it’s watery.



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    #17
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    You'd need to see the dealer. The exploded diagrams show rubber balls.


    https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1639047/Abbey-Machinery-Slurry-Tanker.html?page=68#manual


    https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1639047/Abbey-Machinery-Slurry-Tanker.html?page=42#manual

    You might find that out is normal for I some to get past if you speak with dealer.

    Might be why it recommends you wash it internally with diesel:

    https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1639047/Abbey-Machinery-Slurry-Tanker.html?page=40#manual



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    #18
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    So I took off the bottom cover of the ball valve assembly unit. I was hoping to find something blocking the ball from moving freely but found nothing.

    I was surprised to find the ball valve assembly unit has an upper and a lower chamber. I cant see what is going on in the upper chamber but the lower chamber is where the ball moves up and down.

    The ball is rubber but has a hard inner core which you can feel when you press the rubber in. As I cant see anything wrong with the ball valve assembly unit itself, the only thing I can think of is maybe the hard inner core of the ball might be gone slightly oval shaped. To look at the rubber ball it looks perfectly round but on squeezing it there might be a very slight oval shape to the inner core.

    Do you think that might be at the root of the issue as to why the tank will blow fine but not suck?



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    #19
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    A lack of suck may not be down to the pump. If it blows and spreads normally, suspect the pipework and tanker traps.

    The liner of the hose that joins the pump to the tank can collapse under suction, with no visible sign. Disconnect it at the pump end; if the noise and volume of air from the pump exhaust jump up, suspect the hose.

    Poor performance is usually down to wear. But if the tanker’s internal anti-overfill ball valve gives up, slurry can be drawn into the pump to seize or break rotor vanes. Check the tank ball valves if you find slurry on stripdown – especially the one at the top of the tanker.

    Restoring vacuum tanker suck 'n' blow - Farmers Weekly (fwi.co.uk) - free registration might be required to read

    Can you hear/feel the suction at the exit of the cylinder (don't put your hand or anything that could get drawn into the pump internals over it). Is there any slurry inside the cylinder? Presume that you've also replaced the upper hose too?

    If you are not hearing suction at the exit of the cylinder and it is clean, and the bally is moving freely then I'm not sure unless it is ovaled and needs replacing - there is not many replaceable parts in that section.

    Here's the thread on here I meant to link to - not totally relevant but links out to Abbey user manual:

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058157442/pto-seized-on-vaccum-pump




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    #20
    stanflt
    Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭stanflt


    Sounds like the veins are stuck



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    #21
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677177#Comment_120677177

    No. The pump is blowing and sucking fine. Nearly sucked my hand into the pump. Huge suction. Won't be putting my hand there again. The problem seems to be the ball valve assembly unit directly over the pump. But I opened that and no obvious problem found there.



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    #22
    hopeso
    Registered Users Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭hopeso


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677226#Comment_120677226

    You're probably as well to try and open the top chamber, just to be sure. Maybe there's another ball in there?



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    #23
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677719#Comment_120677719

    I dont know what is in there at all, but there is no way to open the top chamber of the ball valve assembly unit. It is a closed unit, welded closed from the factory. The best i can do is stick my hand up from the lower chamber into the upper chamber and have a little feel around there but there appears to be nothing like a ball up there at all.

    There is another unit that sits on top of the tank itself. I have no idea what is in there.

    But i did test the outlet pipe from the ball valve assembly unit directly over the pump and the outlet would allow air to be blown out but would not allow air to be sucked in. From this i concluded that i had narrowed down the problem to the ball valve assembly unit directly over the pump.

    One other point i should make is that when i first turned on the spreader, and i did this on two separate occasions, the tank would blow air out the back but after moving the pump handle into the suck position and then go back and put it in the blow position, now for some reason the tank would no longer blow air out the back. So there is an aspect here of this being an intermittent problem.

    This makes me wonder if the ball is not perfectly round and so is positioning itself in such a way that it will work sometimes but not other times. Also the inner surface of the ball valve assembly unit is dirty. Not excessively so, but still a bit dirty. This makes me wonder if i gave the inner surface of the ball valve assembly unit a good clean perhaps this would allow the ball to move more freely up and down the chamber.



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    #24
    gazahayes
    Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭gazahayes


    Front trap usually has a 100mm plastic ball that seats up to a 80mm round pipe with a chamfer at the top if it fills with water or slurry, above that there is a 90 degree bend that goes down to the pump. The top trap is similar comes in 2 halves, bottom half should have a bar across to stop the ball falling out. The top half has the same size ball and same round pipe to seal off can sometimes corrode and not seal properly. All parts are easily available from any Abbey dealer.



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    #25
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677783#Comment_120677783

    I included pictures of my tank in the opening post on page 1 of this thread. The layout of my tank sounds different from what you are describing.



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    #26
    hopeso
    Registered Users Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭hopeso


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677760#Comment_120677760

    The unit on top of the tank contains a ball too..... If you want to open the rear hatch of the tanker, you can look in with a lamp to see if the ball is still in place. There's simply a narrow strip of flat iron holding it up. This strip can rot away over time. But, from what you've said, it sounds like the problem is with the front trap....



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    #27
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676232#Comment_120676232

    Dan - the second link I posted shows an exploded diagram which matches your photo. There is a ball in the cyclinder on front of tanker and one in the cylinder on top of the tanker - both got same part number.

    I think you need to check both balls.



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    #28
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677849#Comment_120677849

    I didn't know you could see the ball by simply shining a light in the back of the tank. So i wouldn't have to crawl into the tank itself? The hatch at the back of my tank is quite small, i dont think i could squeeze in and crawl into the tank itself to inspect the ball from underneath. I'd also be weary of doing this as there could be fumes inside the tank.

    Is it possible the bar has rotted like you say and the ball has fallen into the tank itself and rolling around inside? I'd imagine this would make no difference to sucking and blowing. I'd imagine those balls are only to stop slurry being drawn into the pump, but i tend to only ever half fill my slurry tank so i don't think this would ever be a problem. The slurry would never get as high as the roof of the tank.



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    #29
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677870#Comment_120677870

    Thanks for that diagram.

    I'll show the ball, that i took out of the ball valve assembly unit directly over the pump, to my dealer and get his opinion on it. As i've said, the rubber ball is perfectly circular but the inner hard core might have a slight deformation to it.



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    #30
    Dan Gibbons
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dan Gibbons


    One thing that confuses me about the ball valve assembly unit at the front of the tank is that when the pump is in the sucking action, from what i can see the rubber ball should be sucked up the ball valve assembly unit and seal the hole at the top of the ball valve assembly unit. I would have thought this would make the pump unable to suck any more air as the rubber ball would be now acting as a blockage.

    So how is the pump able to continue sucking air, and hence sucking slurry into the tank at the back, if this rubber ball is acting as a blockage?



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    #31
    hopeso
    Registered Users Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭hopeso


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678003#Comment_120678003

    The ball is supposed to float on any water or slurry that got sucked into the trap. It would eventually get high enough to be sucked into the hole, blocking it, to prevent liquid reaching the pump....



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