Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Abortion - It's back on the Irish political agenda

Options
13»

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Well so long as that poster gets to feel better about him or her self, isn't that the main thing

    🙄

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #63
    200mg
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭200mg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675559#Comment_120675559

    You and I have no idea outside anecdotes who is having a termination. We do know that AIDS is back on the rise again due to lax concern of health problems. There was some 20/30 something person on LL trying to make people aware about AIDS. If you want to shoehorn in Anti Gay at least get it correct. It's more of an Issue now in Hetro than Gay. STDs are on the rise again. Have sex with whomever you want no issue to me. Having sex without a condom or the pill is like driving without a seatbelt. You cannot say with a straight face people do not know how pregnancy works in the last 20 years it's just lazy. Again I support the morning after pill it's that simple. Both people know they took a chance. Unfortunately it's the Girl who has to get the pill if the pharmacy allows it. I support all pharmacy's prescribing the morning after. But keeping a list of who you are and like 5 times in there needs to be a talk.


    I assume you think I'm a Religious person far from the truth. Men and women who want to play the lottery is on their own heads. You have to accept that people who engage in Virginal sex can get pregnant and not hand wave it away. I never planned on having kids now have 2. We could have gone the UK rout but we were both of the opinion we took a chance and lost. I asked the partner if they wanted an abortion they said no. I was fine with that. She had the option and did not take it. We now have 2 fully adjusted adults. And talking to them they say the same.



  • Options
    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120672343#Comment_120672343

    It most certainly is not "swallowing a few pills and having a heavy period".

    It can be a horrendous experience. The woman will pass tissue, clots and the foetal sac. The pain is intense, similar to contractions because that's what the body is doing in order to pass the pregnancy. When the pregnancy has been passed the bleeding continues. A fortnight after having the abortion the woman will take a pregnancy test to ensure it was a success.

    The emotional piece can be just as hard. When passing the sac and not knowing whether or not to flush it away or bin it or bury it. In the aftermath that's a memory that can be very distressing. Other women will detach completely in order to cope but it will rear it's head eventually. It can be a lonely experience even with support. It is the right decision and they will feel that very strongly but they will also feel a sense of loss. Their feelings will be a very mixed bag of relief and sadness and fear and what ifs.

    The practicalities of their lives need to be organised during the abortion. If they have kids and are a single mother they may be too unwell to care for them during the first 48hrs. If they live with their parents and have told nobody then they hide in their room until it's all over. They will need to take time off work so they can have the abortion.

    And you just hope the woman isn't over the 9 week mark where they have to go to hospital and deal with an unsympathetic doctor or nurse. Or prior to that if a scan is needed and the sound is left on or they are asked if they would like to see.

    So no not a few pills and a heavy period.



  • Options
    #65
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120672430#Comment_120672430

    ’Abortion as a form of contraception’ is a complete and utter myth that is spouted by the anti-choice crowd to demean a woman’s choice of what to do with her own body.

    BUT, let’s say for instance people are having unprotected sex because sure they can just have an abortion anyway, would you want that couple rearing a child? I certainly wouldn’t.



  • Options
    #66
    TooTired123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    It’s never ever going to be “off” the political agenda either here or in the US. Wether it’s available or unavailable by law.

    Simply because it is the destruction of a human being, no matter which way you look at it, and enough of people aren’t happy about that to cause it to be a serious news item whenever changes in the law are suggested.

    If people thought/hoped/wished that this very difficult issue was “done” once the 8 was repealed then that was very naive. It will never be “done”.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,362 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676007#Comment_120676007

    But it is and will continue to be in pretty much every other liberal democracy right? And why should Ireland be more like the US than them re this issue in the coming years, given we're as secular liberal as anybody now?



  • Options
    #68
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,775 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675596#Comment_120675596

    You and I have no idea outside anecdotes who is having a termination

    Which is good, cause it's none of my business.



  • Options
    #69
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675596#Comment_120675596

    I support all pharmacy's prescribing the morning after. But keeping a list of who you are and like 5 times in there needs to be a talk.

    G'way with this curtain-twitching would-be moral guardian nonsense. You wouldn't accept that sort of intrusion into your life so don't attempt to impose it on others.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #70
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676007#Comment_120676007

    If you think legislation more restrictive than currently is ever going to happen, you are having a laugh.

    The anti-choicers gave it everything they (or rather their dodgy American backers) had in 2018 and still got trounced. They are a busted flush and a liability for any politician who aligns with them. Peadar Toibin survives on his personal vote but it's very telling that his "party" cannot elect anyone else.

    The emotive "human being" stuff gets you nowhere. A human being can exist independently without being dependent on the body of another for survival. A potential human being, sure.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #71
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675877#Comment_120675877

    You are talking about the latest end of the scale where pills can be used. In the earlier stages it's a heavy period.

    None of that is any different from a first trimester miscarriage, but my wife and I know from personal experience that nobody gives a crap about miscarriage, not even "catholic ethos" maternity hospitals. All you'll get is a shrug of the shoulders and be told to try again.

    I've already said the hospital provision here is unacceptable, and medical professionals who can't keep themselves from judging their patients are not being professional at all. They'd be better off opting out entirely and having nothing to do with abortions.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676567#Comment_120676567

    Plus these anti-choicers never actually mention just what can go wrong during pregnancy and birth...

    In fact, recently there is a case in Ireland involving an Asian national who desperately needed a C-section and didn't get it, and in 'good old HSE fashion' was told they weren't performed on weekends and come in on Monday. My point is, really bad things can happen during pregnancy.



  • Options
    #73
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,714 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676763#Comment_120676763


    Plus these anti-choicers never actually mention just what can go wrong during pregnancy and birth...

    Why would they though? It wouldn’t make sense for anyone to conflate a wanted pregnancy with an unwanted pregnancy. Some people in favour of broadening legislation relating to the conditions under which a termination of pregnancy is permissible will use those sort of tactics alright, but they’re referring to a completely different concept with completely different motivations.

    In the case you mentioned for example, there was no suggestion that the woman in question was asking for an elective abortion, they were asking for an elective caesarean. Apparently, the staff had not been made aware of her wishes for a caesarean section, or the woman would have been told it wasn’t possible at the weekend. An emergency caesarean section was performed, but at that point one of the twins had already died.

    An inquest was opened at the District Coroners Court to investigate the circumstances surrounding the death -

    https://archive.ph/66o3E

    The circumstances of that case are quite different from the circumstances in this case -

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/23/irish-couple-to-receive-damages-over-advice-that-led-to-unnecessary-abortion

    I’ve no doubt some idiots would want to beat you over the head with that case and claim that nobody actually mentions just what can go wrong with pregnancy and birth, but I wouldn’t do that, because it would be a petty attempt to score points, and would have nothing to do with your views.



  • Options
    #74
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676876#Comment_120676876

    The point was, bad things happen during pregnancy. Anti-choice never mentions them though; I didn't raise that case because it was someone requesting an abortion. Here we had a woman pregnant with twins whose water broke early, desperately in need of medical care, and couldn't get it. Bad things happen during pregnancy.

    Abortion is health care and sometimes can be life-saving healthcare for the mother.



  • Options
    #75
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,714 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677044#Comment_120677044


    Yes I know what you’re saying, and so does anyone, because everyone is already aware that bad things can happen during pregnancy and birth, and given that statistics available would suggest that the vast majority of women seeking abortions are women who have given birth already, multiple times in many cases, which is the primary reason they give for seeking an abortion (due to socioeconomic circumstances, they simply cannot afford another child), or many have had difficulties in pregnancy and childbirth previously, they’re even more acutely aware of the fact that bad things can happen.

    What I couldn’t make head nor tails of in that article tbh is the accusation that the woman was told this is not China, and the practice is that they wait. It’s not unreasonable to assume that anyone working in a maternity hospital in the West would be familiar with the effects of China’s ‘One Child Policy’, and hasn’t been a thing for years, but the same time it’s not beyond the bounds of possibility that someone on staff is a bit dim and thought they were being clever -

    https://www.npr.org/2016/02/01/465124337/how-chinas-one-child-policy-led-to-forced-abortions-30-million-bachelors


    Expecting anyone in favour of broadening existing legislation to address that though would be as silly as expecting anyone who is opposed to abortion to address the argument that bad things can happen during pregnancy and childbirth. They’re not even in the same ballpark.



  • Options
    #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676567#Comment_120676567

    I'm sorry your wife and you experienced a miscarriage and the lack of compassion. The sadness it leaves is rarely addressed and the anxiety and fear that the couple goes through when trying to get pregnant again. It's an awful journey. I don't know it personally but I know many many women who have gone through the pain of miscarriage and the hope to have a child.

    Many women are close to or over 6 weeks when they have an abortion or even seek one out. It can take a while to come to a decision and then there is attempting to secure an appointment sooner rather than later.

    The emotional piece is present regardless of the gestation and it's really important that that's acknowledged and that support is provided if the woman or man wants it.

    The practical element is also an issue. Again a woman will need to factor the abortion in to their lives and ensure they are at home and comfortable.

    On paper we can say that it's a heavy period but really it can be so much more than that. I am pro choice and I also understand that it isn't always an easy choice to make. There can be a fall out and women need to know what to expect. It's a process I'm happy to have in this country, a process that needs to be fully explained.



  • Options
    #77
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    "Many women are close to or over 6 weeks when they have an abortion or even seek one out. It can take a while to come to a decision and then there is attempting to secure an appointment sooner rather than later."


    All the more reason to expand coverage at the hospitals via funding and appropriate hiring. Seems that should factor into the debate at the Dail.



  • Options
    #78
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678526#Comment_120678526

    Yes there needs to be more providers because currently there simply aren't enough doctors who are giving the service. Even in dedicated women's health clinics the resources aren't there.



  • Options
    #79
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,111 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675596#Comment_120675596

    Am glad that your children are grown now and fully adjusted .

    But that's really not any of my business , is it ?



Advertisement