Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

The initial post that started this line of debate was

‘on average people are worse off now than in 2009’.

There was no reference to age. Not to you, but to the original poster, I was pointing out that when you say ‘on average’ you have to accept that the average person in Ireland doesn’t care about house prices or rents because they own their home.

Ok fair, only a misunderstanding then. You quoted me so I assumed you were responding.

I agree with you partly. I think its a great time to be an older Irish person with a good career. I just think its largely at the expense of young people.

Renting for young people is almost impossible. The system has been rigged to enrich the already wealthy at the expense of our young people.

I not sure whether you are joking or deluded. From 2010 on there was no apprenticeships and many parents struggled to send children to college. Definitely if you failed a year( huge issue with first year) it became very expensive to repeat.

Jobs for college students were very poorly paid, most getting 2/3rds the minimum wage, training rate shops used to let trainees go after the statutory period and rehire new workers and you had to '' retrain'' again in another shop. Fees went from 1k to over 3k in 3-4 years, yes accomodation was cheap but earning were very low. CA was stopped at 18 instead of 21 which was there until 2008/9. Most students were lucky to earn 4-6k/ year

At present most students can earn 12-15k/ year fees have remained static ( actually they were reduced to 2k for last year), apprenticeships are there to be got for those that want them. Young adults in college now choose to stay in college accommodation even where the distance is very commutable and they have cars.

Ya when they go out into the real world it's slightly different they must now get the finger out and work.

The reason migration has ramped up is many young adults could not travel during COVID. There has been a build up of those wishing to travel. Two friend of my eldest lad are gone one is gone for a six month career break from a factory job and the other lad has a two year career break from his employer.

Another lad has just jacked the job and gone with them. The lad on the six months break is on the way back. Another friend of my eldest lad who went with him to Australia, (my lad came back last year) is staying in Australia until his residency is sorted and he then is returning to the UK where his GF is from.

A lot of the hype about migration is just BS

Extremely limited number of new builds in Galway City now and it shows. 2 full new developments have been 100% council owned in the last 2 years. Very scare development other than that.

One development under construction at the moment of 3 & 4 beds. The 3 beds are €420k. Didn't even ask about 4 beds as the the 3 beds are already extremely overpriced. The houses are at the opposite side of the major employment hubs, so you're looking at a 30 min commute.

Can't see any other developments at the moment. bleak.

Its not just anecdotal, there are plenty of hard statistics on skilled emigration spiking hugely currently. For example:

"“We train around 700 doctors a year, last year 432 of them applied for visas and went to Australia. We don’t know how many have gone to other countries."

Its not remotely sustainable. We're importing close to 100,000 people a year, a large % of which have no higher level education and will never do more than menial jobs, while our own best and brightest are being forced to leave. The housing crisis is an absolutely massive push factor for under 30s these days.

The overall immigration/emmigration statistics are still going to be positive because of that, and look a lot better than in 2009-2017, but what are the emigration statistics for strictly Irish nationals in the compared years? Thats more relevant here.

62% of the doctors who qualified in Ireland last year moved to Australia. Nevermind however many moved to the entire rest of the planet - being very conservative that would bump the figure to anywhere from 70-80%.

It doesn't matter if not all of those are lost for good, thats an absolutely catastrophic figure for the Irish health service in the immediate future. We're already short staffed for junior doctors, the fact some percentage of those may come back in 5-10 years time is both not remotely guaranteed and absolutely no help right now.

Along with better pay the shift structure is way better there with less hours, better time off and less on-call

I'm not originally Irish and I am no longer young 😢 but FWIW I think a major factor is how the Irish A&P market operates. It dicks people about in ways I have not seen in other countries.

And better weather.....

I'll take that reply not citing any source as an admittance of "I have no sources, I was stating my own unqualified opinion as fact" so. Extraordinary claims, like that of not a single Irish doctor emmigrating to any country anywhere in the entire world but Australia, do require proof to be believable.

I know multiple newly qualified Irish doctors who moved to Canada, NZ, the UK & US personally, so the figure is most definitely not zero. If you can't be bothered to look up the statistics then at least go talk to a recently qualified doctor and ask them about people from their year emigrating - its not just to Australia, unfortunately for Ireland.

I have spoken to doctors, who have all since moved to Australia, which you have shown the stats of. I've no interest in finding stats for the USA where its virtually impossible to get a Visa these days. We can bang on about housing all we like but they're moving because its double the pay and fewer hours, not rocket science. Nothing extraordinary about these claims. Conflating the doctor exodus with housing is actually more dangerous because if we fixed housing tomorrow we'd still be losing them, it needs its own solution.

I quoted and linked the statistic showing 62% of newly qualified doctors left the country moving to just one destination, and suggested that given that and the fact every year lots of newly qualified doctors move elsewhere in the Anglosphere in particular (anyone whos done medicine or known anyone who has will tell you this) the total number is likely going to be anything up to 70-80% I didn't say it was a mass exodus to elsewhere, my if anything low ball assessment was based on a fairly basic level of common sense / experience in the medical industry and didn't given a specific figure or claim to know one.

The poster replied saying "no doctors moved to any other country in the world except Australia". Which is just a bizarrely unlikely statement to make as a fact, and again anyone with any first hand medical industry experience would tell you otherwise. And when queried he had absolutely no proof to back-up his statement, because its obviously completely untrue.

So again - you actually have no idea what you're talking about, no statistics whatsoever. Got it.

The number one reason young Irish people are moving is housing, as I posted statistics to show. And that includes young Irish doctors and nurses, as their own organisations are literally saying, that I also posted. If they had cheap housing here the comparatively lower wages wouldn't be half as much of a push factor, because housing is the most important financial consideration in most young people's lives currently.

If you apparently think you know better than the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation and their like though you should probably get onto to them to let them know that housing actually isn't an issue for their members.

Now you are going to have to provide some sources yourself. For decades, health care professionals, including Doctors have moved abroad for a verity of reasons, the same reasons apply today. Some go for better wages, some go for better working conditions, some because there are better opportunities for specialist training positions, some just go because they feel it is an opportunity to travel and experience another country before returning home to settle down. When I qualified, buying a house was not even close to the top of my priorities, two of my children are relatively recent medical graduates who both work in the UK, they went there to take up posts in specialist training. I know it suits your narrative to say it is all about housing, but it isn’t, there are many reasons why Doctors are emigrating, but primarily it is to do with working conditions and opportunities for career development.

My complaint is the process rather than the prices. Main thing about buying in London was not wasting another 6-12 months of my life farting around with opaque bidding rounds.

Hi! Newcomer to boards.ie, and to the property market, here.

I live in a rental, currently paying very good price given the property (2200€ for a decent 3bdr in D14). The owner wants to sell next year, with a contract lasting until September 2024.

I have enough savings and AIP to aim for a ~500k€ property (similar to the house I am renting).

Given that we have over a year to look for a property, and that we are not too picky (we see a lot of houses that have been sold for 450-480k€ that we would have been happy to purchase), which is the best strategy to maximize the property we get for the price? At this point I wouldn't mind waiting for someone selling in a chain, for example. Is there a way to find people that sell at a discount because they're in a chain and it could take long to commit all the sales?

And a separate question: Is there a way to find people selling by themselves? (without Estate Agent). I would happily pay 5k€ extra just to avoid scamy EAs doing sale pressure tactics on us, specially since they might be able to trick my wife, and then I will have to be the level-headed "no, they are trying to scam us out of additional 20k€ with a non-existing offer". Which will no doubt cause me headaches. That's 5k€ + 3% that the seller would pocket (as long as they have priced the house right), I assume there has to be some market for people that sells like that.