Is it time to join Nato

Yes, nato has done its job. Very good. And now its getting a bit late. Nato has gotten the old western Europe through that time in history so that Europe could go on to develop the ability to stamp out any threat by itself.

And now we see large budget increases and rearmament by Poland, Germany, France, and others. The picture becoming clear that the new expanded free Europe can quite certainly put Russia back in its place if need be on a normal day. Let alone when Russia is busy getting its ass beaten in Ukraine. (The loss stats are immense)

The future sees a freshly beaten and very much diminished Russia, now with the previously surprise bonus of a tooled up Ukraine at its soft underbelly, an unfriendly 2000+km long indefensible border from Finland to the Black sea, and no more EU oil/gas market. All while EU countries pour billions into sending their stats in the opposite direction to Russias, widening the gap.

And at that point Russia can have all the ambitions it wants, but if had best whisper them. So job just about done, thanks nato, youve done more than enough. Getting about that time to wind down. Not to do more. Why would you want to keep going, and why are you intent on filling in the whole EU map (incl Ireland), why are you opposed to the EU's own mutual defense. Why does America seem so unfriendly towards European strategic autonomy.

Obvious bait.

I have no association with the hard left, Wallace, Pbp, Daly. No sympathy for Putin. I dont detest America or Britain. I do support increasing our military capabilities.

Some people here are just so stuck in their tracks that theyve lost their objectivity. Ideologues, lost in old debates. The same people who would argue whether the approaching comet was a lefty comet or a right wing comet.

Nato dislikes csdp and the continual growth of european autonomy. Why some Europeans wouldnt want to grow towards more autonomy and less dependence is quite curious. Nato is full of nutbags, like Erdo or (previously) Trump, and we need our own option. Even the UK has been getting involved again, and Denmark recently signed up, even though theyre a nato founder and previously stayed out. Guess that makes them rolly smoking, hard lefties by the standards of the old record players in here.

No one will be running to Irelands defence in the event of an attack on the nations sovereignty unless the Irish state fights back with serious intent. That means military & civilian citizens losing lives in sufficient numbers that other nations & potential allies believe we have defended our nation with sufficient valour & heroism.

If the Irish government & military surrendered to a foreign oppressor without putting up a serious fight, no other nation would be bothered about losing their sons & daughters to liberate a nation that didn't sufficiently fight back when attacked.

In such a scenario as above I can see many traitor quislings, especially from the far left would be collaborating with the oppressor for their own gain. The quislings already apologise for the actions of totalitarian regimes & are certainly compromised already.

The duty of any sovereign nation is to defend itself & people to the best of it's ability. Not to neglect the defence of it's territory & continually undermine the funding of it's military defence budget.

This Austrian guy saying we should be kicked out of the EU if we don't join NATO. This guy is at it a lot. It's people like him that are the ones lobbying over government to join NATO.

These are the kind people who are lobbying our government on the behalf of defence corporations. He's Austrian so his country would benefit as they have their own defence companies. It's nothing really to do with being friendly to Ireland and helping us to defend ourselves but their enemies would become our enemies and we'd be throwing away all that goodwill that we have with UN peacekeeping just so we can join an organization that some of it's members like to go around the world and throw their weight around and in the process creating enemies for them which would then become ours and for what?

For us to buy their trinkets which doesn't help the average man and woman on the streets and only lines their own pockets. people high up in government are all for this as they stand to get somthing out of it for themselves while the rest of us won't. We are being blitzed now in the media since the war in Ukraine happened as they see this as an opportunity.

What is the conspiracy theories that you accuse me of and can you point them out to me? thanks. I actually think that is the reason what they're looking out for is their own defence industries interests over Irelands. I don't think they have Irelands interests at heart and it's all just about money for them. The fact is that no matter waht or how much we'd buy it wouldn't help us in any way if the world went to crap. The only ones to benefit from this is the defence undustries, their lobbyists and whoever else in government gets a future jb down the line or would have shares/stocks in those companies.

Austria isn't in NATO but it would stand to benefit as it has it's own defence industry. He seems to do a lot of Pro-NATO stuff. I hope they're paying him well.😂

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3353368-gunther-fehlinger-austrian-economist.html

Speaking at a pro-NATO event

Calling for the Dismantling of Russia which will play into Putins playbook that the west wants to destroy them.

And his Youtube channel.

More than likely yes. The UK would take up the bulk i'm sure. On an EU level I'd say the government will buy a few items from various other EU states just to show "EU solidarity" or something like that.

Are there any reasons other than 'the russian boogieman will get us'.

All countries get lobbied and by various sectors. Ireland actually gets lobbied a lot by various ones including American Chamber of Commerce. Since this war in Ukraine started they have increased this ten-fold. Ireland does well in UN peackeeping and has built up a good reputation there and we'd be throwing it all away just to join NATO.

I think the government would want us in that but the reason they haven't come out and stated so is because they know that the majority of Irish people are against it. Leo Varadkar was against gay men adopting children but soon changed when he knew most people were for it. It's also why Micheál Martin said we wouldn't need a referendum when it came to NATO because he also knows it wouldn't pass.

We should increase wages for our defence forces and being an island nation i would also be for more naval resources but to go all out and buy weapons of war just for them to be stored in warehouses and not used just so our leaders and government can get a pat on the head. We've already seen the wastefulness over the last couple of years.,over two billion for just one hospital! I feel that money should be better spent elsewhere that will also actually help the Irish people.

Just think what that 2 Billion could do for our defences! A total waste of resources that still isn't finished is in the wrong place and will I'm sure be unfit for purpose.

@Scipri0 You are right. I think what may be a factor there is Irish rhetorical/UN support for the Palestinian cause (the article about Canada mentions this anyway).

I think that has been strong and quite consistent over the history of the state. You will note the other country that got a temporary seat (mentioned in that article you link) is Norway, which like Canada is a NATO member ironically!

Even if we did join, there is no requirement for the members to be involved in things like the Iraq war (a lot of NATO members disagreed with that).

That was a disgrace and did alot of damage to US standing, but I don't agree with equivalences being made with Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It is a technical equivalent in that the US invaded and ousted the recognised govt. of a soverign state + had no UN mandate to do this & no other justifications, but there are differences between Ukraine and Iraq as victims and also in the aims of the US and Russia, and how they have conducted their wars.

On a NATO referendum, yeah if govt. decide they want to do it (join NATO) and want a "yes" from the people, it will not be held until they think they have a shot at winning (vs embarassing themselves with a large defeat!). Again that seems fairly normal politics in any democracy.

You probably noticed that Micheal Martin cam out a few months back stating that we mightn't need a vote for that reason because he knows deep down that it will more than likely be rejected and if he tried to force it through then i can only imagine what would happen there. Even since that highest tax take of €20 billion we had more people and groups telling us that we should put it towards defence and while that's not all bad like wages but to buy items that might be stored in warehouses for years then i'd be wary.

Yes, I do think that Russia could have a serious interest in occupying Ireland in the event of a war.

However I don't expect anybody in Ireland to have the same opinion as myself.

Furthermore, I just don't see the point in hiding the idea that the Royal Airforce is looking after Irish airspace, while Irish politicians continuously feed the story of neutrality whilst maintaining a military which is clearly beyond Swiss standards.

Remember, Ireland is not beyond interest. Also the Nazis were interested in invading Ireland.

And on a peaceful side, the Russians did like Aeroflot and Shannon airport in the 80ies.

Why do we need a fire engine if there is no fire?

Would the Americans defend Ireland in the event of a Russian invasion? It's possible since there are so many of Irish heritage in America. Also there is a lot of American investment in Ireland.

Sure why not just give them Shannon airport and disband the defense forces if that's the case,

Set up a permanent US overseas base here,and no need to ever worry about defense spending ever again or Nato membership