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Sick of this country

1568101120

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    The oul "Grass isn't greener on the other side" argument - recently promoted by "Leo". The FF/FGers are truly out in force tonight on this thread. I expect nothing less on this website.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    I'm sure you'll be able to name a country with low taxes, cheap housing, plentiful jobs, great infrastructure and high public sector salaries. Being that they're so common and all?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Tell me, how does the MNC's wealth only benefit the older generation? How does their money not benefit the young? I'd go so far as to say that the young benefit more as the MNC's wealth wasn't really there when the older generation were coming up.

    Also, please explain to me how someone retiring early is keeping your wages low and how are those low wages proping up their pensions?

    Yes, the challenges are different today but so what. Do you think the older generation didn't have any challenges?

    Apart from housing, most other things are easier for young people than they were 30 or 40 years ago.

    Calling everyone in the HSE a d1ckhead tells me everything I need to know about you.

    You sound very bitter.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    The latest CSO survey I saw told us that more Irish people are returning home than leaving. Lots of young people leave to see a bit of the world but most come home from what I can tell. This is certainly true for doctors, I read recently that 85% of them return home after going abroad for the experience and exposure to different medical environments. I know a good few medical professionals through my partner and all of them have worked abroad, they're all home now though.

    Yes Ireland is tough going for young people right now, but most countries abroad where people can get work have much of the same problems we do. When I was allowing my flat to be viewed in London before I left earlier this year there was a queue going down the road to see it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Hey, Hey, Hey.

    Get ta fcuk outta here with your facts. They aren't wanted here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Go on, name your perfect country with low taxes, cheap housing, plentiful jobs, great infrastructure and high public sector salaries etc.?

    Next question, why aren't you there if here is so bad?



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    To be honest, I only know two people who emigrated and stayed emigrated. One because he met and married an Aussie and the other works in some kind of space related engineering role and was never going to stay here anyway. So no, I don't know where all these people are going but apparently you do, so why don't you tell us?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    I originally posted here earlier on a stat regarding teachers emigrating. Go and type "teachers emigrating Ireland" into Google. It's all there. They say which countries they're emigrating to and give the reasons why. First hand information.

    Personally you'd want to be blind not to see the reasons why so many are emigrating.

    But many FF/FGers and their supporters have it handy in Ireland. To them the status quo is worth protecting. We all know why.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,443 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    So you have now sampled the labour market in two European countries and discovered that the prospects for someone with no qualifications or skills are not very good and all you can do is compete on a cost basis with similar people from third countries…

    There were opportunities for you to up skill in the UK, there are in Ireland and unlike most of the foreigners you are complaining about you have a right to work anywhere in a huge labour market. Nobody owes you a living, up skill and take advantage of what’s on offer or sit and whine it’s up to you.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    It's not great money if you are self-employed. Given that you'll have wet days where you can't work etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    There are more professions in Ireland than teachers.

    You still haven't mentioned where you'd emigrate to.

    It's obvious that if someone has a different opinion to you, they are FF/FG boogeymen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    I know of one school in Dublin where 15 have applied for a career break to leave and emigrate. Now I don't know them all intimately or personally but you can have a go at that and give yourself the illusion that you're winning.

    Everyone knows the countries they're going to and you know also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Of course. Personally the UAE looks the best country to emigrate to but it's a personal decision. I'm posting on teachers because my original quote was on that job. I'm well aware of the fact that we are short thousands of nurses and doctors in underfunded Irish hospitals (many of them gone also). But I also acknowledge that for some there's never been a recession in Ireland in their lifetimes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,972 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    Renting in Germany I know my rent for the next 5 years. It will increase but by that I mean maybe 10 euro a month each year. I know Ireland has caps too but I read horror stories on boards.ie also.I would have to read my contract again but it is no more than that.

    Utilities are paid in the "warm rent" and the management company will read your electricity meter, the radiator meters and yes there is an electronic counter on each radiator and they check your water usage once a year and give you a total. Bins, communal lights we will never see those bills but most of the bills is on your usage and some of the communal usage. Maybe you owe them, maybe they owe you. Reading the units on every radiator, must be the most German thing ever!

    Such certainty. You could rent for a lifetime. And many do.

    Downsides, you must return the flat in the condition you got it and even if you are the world's most perfect tenant this may mean painting it again.

    Not such a downside but you rent unfurnished. You can rent furnished but the rent is higher and if you are staying a while it is cheaper to go to IKEA and buy what you need. Quite normal for the last tenant to sell you what they leave behind.

    May take months to get your deposit back and they wait to read all the meters.

    Certainty gives you a lot of piece of mind. Germany is not paradise, I save my rants for another thread. But renting wise is less than half what I paid in Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Doesn't quite fit the narrative some posters on here want to read though. Sad part of your experience living in Germany is that all of those measures could be implemented here. . . but they're not. And the reason for that is corruption weaves its way through the landowning, political and banking classes in Ireland like a hot knife going through butter.

    The English always mocked the Irish before independence saying "the Irish are incapable of governing themselves".

    Sadly they were right.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    Is this some kind of externalised self-loathing? You live in one of the most successful countries on Earth by any measure. Also, it's ironic you seem to think the English would make a better fist of running the country for us seeing how much they've managed to **** up their own in the past few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Brexit Britain is a ghastly place, for sure. We're in the same neo-liberalist capitaism-on-steroids boat though. Very similar. We basically copy everything they do whilst try and look "independent" by being the first in the world at something - like labels on alcohol products to take a recent example. I want Ireland to be a Germany, a Norway, a France - a social democratic country where the citizen matters, public services are invested in, pensions are protected. . . . and not the kip it is now where we dump our own citizens on the streets because landlord politicians could it creaming it more than they were.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    Only a few posts ago you were complaining about high taxes here. The three countries you mentioned all have higher taxation than we do, in some cases, substantially so. I was actually in Norway last year, the prices they pay would make your eyes bleed. Fantastic country though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    That's true. I have no problem with high taxes even if 50% after €40,000 is nuts. (As an aside I remember when it was 50% after €32000 in 2011).

    But they get what they pay for in Germany and elsewhere with their taxes. As a citizen in Germany once told me "Everything just works" in Germany.......which is ironically the reason they can take in one million Syrians overnight. The public infrastructure is there. Paid for by the taxpayer in Germany.

    Unfortunately we cannot say the same for Ireland. We had a running tram system in Dublin back in the day - ripped it up. We have the worst funded schools among OECD countries. Public transport is a mess in Dublin and basically doesn't exist in rural Ireland. Pension age increasing to 68, 69 as we boast of how rich we are. Emigration is on the rise among skilled workers as we sit back and allow it to decimate our public services. Homelessness increasing with entire families facing 1880s style evictions. Price of property among the highest in the world, Rents sky high. Petrol & Car Tax - huge relative to other countries. VAT rate amongst the highest in the EU. . . . . But hey we are so incredibly successful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    So basically all you're saying is living in a rich country is expensive. Look, if you want people to take what you're saying seriously it would help your case if you didn't need to lie. We have nowhere near the worst funded schools in the OECD. We're just below average as of 2019.

    You won't hear me argue with you about public transport but for some reason the Irish public don't view it as a voting issue and thus our politicians don't focus much on it. If you can tell me how to change that I'd be all ears.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    "Ireland spends less than 36 other developed countries on its education system, when spending is measured as a portion of countries’ gross domestic product (GDP), according to a new report from the OECD."

    Honestly take a look in some Irish schools - Same as the 1970s/80s with the latest software on the computers being Windows95.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭maninasia


    The education system in Ireland is highly vaunted by a lot of Irish but when you check the details you can really scratch your head.

    Very severe lack of places and difficult to get kids into schools in most cities and towns, overcrowded classes, many prefab structures, religious interference in most schools , lack of coed schools, lack of subsidised hot meals provided, lack of music, drama and woodwork classes, very rare to have swimming pools and a large campus.


    They ain't so great as they are made out to be. I surmise because many Irish people never saw the facilities and classes and cafeteria available in many other countries, including in many countries that they falsely assume to be less developed, they must think Irish Schools are 'better'. At least private schools arent very expensive in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    Our GDP figures are make-believe. I gave you the actual figures from the OECD website. That article does however state that Irish teachers are well paid by international standards. Go figure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    They're so well paid they're leaving in droves. :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,833 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    it also has effective healthcare, efficient infrastructure like public transport, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Where did the young people live during all this, in fields?

    Who will ultimately benefit from that asset?

    What about people who were lucky with their timing and bought houses at fractions after the bust, do we forcibly evict them too? I mean euro for euro they are far better off than most.

    Where do you draw the line on this communist land grab plan of yours?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    An uncle of mine is clearing €750/week plus fuel and he told me recently hed have very little left at the end of the week and hes not living a life of luxury however he is mortgage free

    If your uncle is burning through 3 grand plus cash a month without accommodation or fuel expenses he needs to talk to a financial planner.

    Or maybe he already has and he is putting a shít load of money into stocks and pensions pots which will allow him to retire early.

    Either way you haven't told us the full story or he hasn't told you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Vat rate at 23% is ridiculous. Marginal tax rate a joke. Infrastructure a joke. But something has to pay for the worldclass welfare and free housing for many..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,872 ✭✭✭hynesie08




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    And know how!

    If the 00's are anything to go by, Paddy hasn't a clue how to build quality housing that's sustainable and is sound in terms of infra design.

    Swords is seeing an incredible amount of housing being built. There's the Swords Express and a couple of Dublin Bus routes to service 50,000 people. It's just not enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,545 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    What's meant is the level of teaching and the curriculum and I'd rate that highly.

    Your other points are valid but are a separate issue.

    I do wish all religious orders were out of schools and they did not follow catholic ethos. Don't waste education time preparing kids for bouncy castle days (communion and confirmations) and use that time for other education and PE. Let people do religion in their own time.

    Single sex schools should be got rid of as well. Dated idea that has no benefit in modern society.

    I wouldn't agree with your comments about swimming pools. I would say most schools around the world do not have swimming pools.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85


    I haven't been yet. I'm 39. Hoping they change their visa system to allow up to 50 year olds, as they are currently discussing...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,764 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Parents don't want all schools to be ETB schools.

    Many ETB schools are great, but some aren't.

    I recall the example of Ballymote, where there was a proposal to merge the ETB school Corran College with the church school.

    The parents didn't want it.


    I taught a short session to second-level kids. The apathy from the "tech" lads filled the room, whereas the girls from the church school were so motivated.

    As a parent, I know where I'd send my kids!!


    In saying that, Galway city is unusal, where the ETB run one of the best schools.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Swords is supposed to be getting the metro but that has always been a pipe dream. I work there now sometimes and cycle out, it's just a straight road from town. There are plans for Bus Connects with bike lanes going all the way out to Swords from town but I can't see it being finished in the 2020s. We really need some kind of emergency measures to get infrastructure projects underway because nothing is getting done, I was reading yesterday that residents in Templeogue or Terenure are going to try and bring a case all the way to the European courts of Justice because they're losing a few car parking spaces over bus connects. Just unbelievable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭monseiur


    The younger generation (under 30's) seem to have a sense of entitlement and are becoming lazy. Their expectations are very high when it comes to financial reward for a minimum amount of work. Our teachers, nurses etc. are some of the best paid in the world but the promise of a better quality of life, higher take home salary, better climate etc. is attracting them away to greener financial pastures.

    There's also another issue for single girls (which is never talked about) who are based in the bigger cities especially Dublin - that is the shortage of single men available ! It seem that for every single man there's at least two or three girls and the situation is getting worse. The arrival of thousands of Ukrainian women has not helped the situation. It's easier for singletons to pack their bags and move abroad than those in long term relationships. Some, especially those in the Middle East will return but many others in places like Australia, Canada etc. will only return to visit. I know of a group of five girls (including a cousin of mine) teachers & nurses, who moved to Australia six years ago, supposedly for one year, and all are still there - two are now married, one is getting married next August - all five have permanent residency



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,764 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I have a load of empathy with people trying to pay rent / buy a house, especially in urban areas.

    It is genuinely much harder than in the past.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,865 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    In terms of how successful a country is based on it's educational system, Ireland's lack of a highly ranked university puts paid to the notion that the educational system top to bottom is good. At best, it's average to below average; the religious presence wastes time with no educational benefit, e.g., it's not like they're teaching critical thinking in religion class or in religious ritual initiation classes like confirmation training.

    TCD finally is in the top 100 of world rankings, that says a lot. And it's not, because the students coming into it, aren't as well educated as the ones that attend the higher ranked schools.

    Nothing will improve until the RCC's presence in schools is completely removed. That won't happen without changes to the Constitution. So, if it were me and I had a child getting ready to go to University, I'd for sure move heaven and earth to get them into a better, non-Irish one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    I would agree that many of the older generation are extremely entitled but they have been prioritised politically over the young for so long, it’s hardly surprising

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    I lived in Australia years ago, it was nice enough, just not home so we came back.

    Years later it's hard to believe quality of life wouldn't be higher in Australia. Years of questionable government 'plans' have come home to roost.


    People don't like to say it but immigration, generally legal immigration has caused massive problems here. Schools are full, there aren't enough houses, hospitals can't cope with the population, it's very hard to get anyone to do repairs on your house. In short our population has gone up way too much without the resources we needed to provide for more people.


    The Irish economy is still booming, but people are very, very discontent. You can kind of see it in the response to the Ukrainian refugees. These are the most deserving immigrants we will ever get, yet there are some people complaining about them. In a time of full employment you'd typically expect people to be reluctant to change the Government, but this crowd are going to get a hammering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    People don't like to say it but immigration, generally legal immigration has caused massive problems here. Schools are full, there aren't enough houses, hospitals can't cope with the population, it's very hard to get anyone to do repairs on your house. In short our population has gone up way too much without the resources we needed to provide for more people.

    Schools are not full, we are undersubscribed. It's the reason we were able to integrate 15,000 Ukrainian children. There is pressure points in certain areas but that is bad planning more than anything else.

    It's immigrants that build our houses and work in our health systems, without them we would be in complete dire straights.

    The reality is we are going to need a lot more of them going forward if we want to achieve our capital construction plans.


    I lived in Australia years ago, it was nice enough, just not home so we came back.

    So you were an immigrant yourself?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Yes, I was. I don't dislike immigrants at all, I employ a heap of them. Mostly great workers too.

    But that doesn't change the fact that Ireland has brought in too many new people too quickly. It's not racist or discriminatory to say so.

    In many areas schools are full and oversubscribed. Allowing targeted immigration of people with certain skills is generally a good idea, but that's not what has happened here. And the country is paying a price for it. It's mostly young people paying for it through extortionate rents. Also older people who can't get the health care they need.

    It's an inconvenient truth. In my opinion it's just childish to say that immigration has not been the key factor in the health and housing crises. It clearly is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'So you were an immigrant yourself?'

    Effectively sounds like he was a guest worker since he went, worked and came back.

    Plenty of East Europeans working here with no intention of staying on and the same was true in 2002-7.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    No one suggested you were racist, just wrong.

    The reality is we need immigrants of all skill levels, particularly to care for our elderly who you highlighted, work in construction, tourism and our health service, etc, etc, etc.

    IF a County Council gives the go ahead to a new large housing development because they want the fees and don't plan for obvious extra infrastructure that isn't an immigrants fault.

    No Immigrant made that decision. I guarantee you that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    If you're into cycling that's great. If you're not, its terrible. 30km/2 hour cycle per day... it's not for most people. In fact I'd argue it's for very few.

    Metro's original concept should have been completed by now. (I've b*tched and moaned enough about it in this site 😅) I don't think it'll happen.

    It think it depends on where you live. Some of the Schools close to me are quite empty because the area has matured. The schools where my son lives are absolutely jammed. 35 kids in a class job, with two classes! depends on where you are.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It think it depends on where you live. Some of the Schools close to me are quite empty because the area has matured. The schools where my son lives are absolutely jammed. 35 kids in a class job, with two classes! depends on where you are.

    I know that's why I said there were pressure areas. But overall our school system is under subscribed, so the declarations that they are over subscribed is false.

    Hardly surprising there is pressure areas though.

    Given nonsense like this.

    One benefit of the war is a lot of rural schools who took in Ukrainians secured extra resources which is absolutely fantastic for the village, because if the school closes the village normally dies, remote working has played its part too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭carrollsno1


    Two young kids one in school one in playschool, fuel for the family car, i think there is finance on the family car too and whatever other expenses come into the house as well. His OH started back working a few days a week this year which will help things along too but hes not gonna be rolling in it either.

    Better living everyone



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Targeted immigration, limited to workers with critical skills is obviously positive. But that doesn't seem to be possible.


    It's possible to argue that the current immigration policy is correct. But it's not possible to argue that the level of immigration over the last 20 years is a major factor in the housing and health crises. You might feel that Ireland is still making a net benefit, but it's certainly not without cost to Irish society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭getoutadodge


    I sent my kids to single sex schools and glad I did. Compared to those shoveled into the local comprehensive. There should be choice rather than the coercion u advocate. Same for religious schools which I attended. Pupils used to travel miles by bus to attend it so much so that I, as I kid, naively thought there were no schools in the "countryside" outside Dublin. Decades later this is still the case for that very same school and for the girls only convent school nearby. Parents get to choose not bureaucrats. I saw the very same pattern of behaviour in Australia when I lived there. The neighbourhood state school was a dud and I had to act to forestall problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Well that changes the goalposts considerably, you made it sound like he was mortgage free lad with no family. So the wife is working too, so it's more than €750 cash a week coming into the house. Plus children's allowance, subsidised child care, subsidised health care, etc.

    Mortgage free allows his wife to work only part time which means more time to spend with the kids and family, etc.

    People are too occupied with cost, seldom do they acknowledge the true value.



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