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General British politics discussion thread

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    #9182
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,404 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120689156#Comment_120689156

    Possibly. But the process by which the EO2HO decision was made may nevertheless be instructive, and may offer useful and important lessons.

    I don't have a problem with the enquiry looking at that. To be honest, I'd have a problem if they didn't look at it. But the focus has to be on "what can we learn from this?"



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    #9183
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,515 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120689195#Comment_120689195

    Perhaps, but "politician balances economic needs with public health needs and makes a decision" is more or less the definition of their job.

    Maybe to put it better, I think its a legitimate avenue for the inquiry to look at but I personally don't think its going to be particularly illuminating or instructive and while I highly doubt the media reporting is going to be constructive I also don't think its going to change anybody's view. Its the kind of thing that people like to latch onto but its import in the entire pandemic is so close to irrelevant that I just don't understand why it would be a major focus of anyone. Its certainly not something that I think Sunak is worried about - minds are made up on it already.

    What should be far more concerning is the dismantling of pandemic preparedness before the event and potential government malfeasance during it.



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    #9184
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120688316#Comment_120688316

    We had an equivalent scheme here



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    #9185
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120689230#Comment_120689230

    100%. But it then is perfectly fine that he should be able to stand by that decision and the basis that he made it. And it very much looks like he doesn't want to be answerable to it.

    As I said, it is the process. If he weighed up the scientific against the economic and went with the economy that's perfectly fine. What was the scientific advice? It was such an extraordinary time and event that it is unfair to try to judge people in hindsight. Decisions had to be made, sometimes with very contradictory or incomplete information. But there is a big difference between the advice being that it may cause some small increase to the advice is that this is a terrible idea that will lead to many multiple deaths.

    The inquiry is aimed at learning lessons. How decisions were made, and what could have been done better with the purpose of being better prepared for the next similar event. Sunak is coming across as being more interested in protecting himself and his party from any negative findings rather than looking to make Britain better prepared.



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    #9186
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,404 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120689230#Comment_120689230

    Mmm. But balancing livelihoods on the one hand against actual lives on the other is problematic, isn't it? Even if you accept that it's something politicians have to do, how it's done is very important and a matter of legitimate public interest. And it's definitely something from which important lessons can be learned.

    It can of course attract undue attention, and arguably it is getting that right now. But there is no reason to think the enquiry is giving it undue attention. They have asked questions about it, but among the many hundreds of questions they have asked; I think it's media that are focussing on this aspect, and I think they are doing that in the context of the Cabinet Office attempts to withhold records of whatsapp messages. They are casting around for an explanation for that.

    This is perhaps not the best time at which, or the best climate in which, to conduct the Covid enquiry. The government that dealt with the pandemic is still in office; they are a troubled government, relying for support on a divided and demoralised party. That gives the enquiry a political pointedness that, to be honest, it would be better not to have.

    But we are where we are. I don't think you can delay the enquiry for what would undoubtedly be seen to be the political convenience of the government. And its probably worth noting that the establishment and timing of the enquiry was decided by Boris Johnson in May 2021. At the time there was cross-party support, and widespread support from civic institutions, for a broad enquiry.



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    #9187
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,627 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I can't believe all of this is just to stop people digging into the Eat Out policy. Unless there is something around the policy like Sunak Whatsapping Johnson something like "who gives a fuk if people die"

    Most people already know what they think of the Tory Covid response so it would have to be something huge to move the needle.



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    #9188
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,515 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120689321#Comment_120689321

    But balancing livelihoods on the one hand against actual lives on the other is problematic, isn't it?

    I would probably refute this very premise unless your contention is that societies in general are problematic as it is a core function of decisions governments make basically every day - the scale merely changes. Deciding on regulations, legislation and funding all have this impact at their core.

    I agree the timing is probably not correct and I agree that the Inquiry is probably not unduly focusing on it but rather the media. I think the focus on it is utterly bizarre given what happened that winter that had nothing whatsoever to do with the scheme but c'est la vie, I don't get to pick what people focus on.

    There is a danger of the whole thing becoming little more than an excuse for a political witchhunt rather than an incredibly valuable process for determining how to handle future problems. Though I suspect that a)the eventual findings won't come out until the next govt's term so perhaps can be handled in a more mature manner and b)no matter how well intentioned it will all be forgotten in 10 years anyway when ignoring it is politically expedient.



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    #9189
    Ahwell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120689659#Comment_120689659

    The findings are expected in 2026/27, but afaik the witness interviews will be in public. I do expect Sunak's interview to be focused primarily on the Eat Out scheme. He is particularly bad at this kind of thing and could do himself some political damage in the process. Like Johnson did in front of the privilege committee.

    Call me shallow, but it's the political witch hunts that I'm looking forward to, especially when the findings are so far off.



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    #9190
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I wonder if the Greens will be able to retain that seat without her

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65842115




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    #9191
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,714 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120690981#Comment_120690981

    If the LibDems don't field a candidate I think they have a fair chance. Greens have had a lot of trouble locally so it'll be close if they do make it.



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    #9192
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    It was surprising that in 3 subsequent elections, after her break through in 2010, they weren't even close to getting anyone else elected to parliament. FPTP is cruel to small parties trying to grow though, so not too surprising.



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    #9193
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691293#Comment_120691293

    I used to live in Brighton & Hove. It's an area heavily populated by students so it's no surprise that this is the one seat they have. I worked for the University of Sussex and every so often, activist students would just capture a building and hold it for weeks. That's the kind of place we're talking about here.

    That said, she built a serious brand there. I doubt there's anyone who can fill her shoes.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #9194
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,515 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    She's an absolutely dreadful "Green" MP so I'm not sorry to see the back of her. I only hope the Green Party get someone with better credentials who can take the seat. Ideally one who doesn't hate trains, nuclear energy and building housing on brownfield sites.



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    #9195
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,714 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691293#Comment_120691293

    Only other place they had any realistic chance was Bristol West. I seriously wonder whether their 2017 candidate was paracuted in and this stepped on a few toes locally.



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    #9196
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,520 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Adine dorries to step down as an MP with immediate effect, This triggers a bi-election or will it be a "safe seat" to parachute Johnson into?


    Nadine Dorries to stand down as MP with immediate effect


    https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/MBMbGt



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    #9197
    Ahwell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695275#Comment_120695275

    Johnson was handed the Privileges Committee findings today, it's to made public in a couple of weeks, so Dorries choosing today to step down is unlikely to be a coincidence.



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    #9198
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695275#Comment_120695275


    Just had a look at her wikipedia page and saw this:


    image.png


    That's....some quote



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    #9199
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,382 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Strange. The Independent (London) reported earlier today that she had been taken off Johnsons honours list precisely to avoid a bye-election.

    So either she has thrown a drunken strop (plausible enough) or there is a story going to break which would explain both her omission from the honours list and suddenly hot-footing it from parliament. Or more boringly the Indo story was wrong and she gets the House of Lords gong.



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    #9200
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    A bye-election isn't necessarily the end of the world. Their poll numbers have been steadily ticking upwards since Truss's defenestration. Dorries got 59.8% of the vote in that constituency in 2019. If they can hold on to it Sunak can point to it as an example of him having gotten the party back on track (they lost a few safe seats in bye-elections under Johnson). Even if they lose it he still has a 30+ seat majority to see him through the next 18 months.



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    #9201
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691350#Comment_120691350

    The Greens were destroyed on B&H City Council last month due to being utterly incompetent at actual governance (sounds familiar) so she was probably going to lose her seat anyway.



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    #9202
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,382 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    So then the honours list is published and Dorries is not on it. She said on breakfast tv that she wasn't going to quit as she didn't want a by-election, continue to serve her constituency. Gone by tea-time.

    For those of you having your dinner, look away now.

    Honours list includes Sir Jacob Rees Mogg, Dame Pritti Patel, Sir Michael Fabricant and Dame Andrea Jenkyns.



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    #9203
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,627 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695538#Comment_120695538

    Kneel Michael Fabricant. Arise Sir. Handsalot.

    I assume Dorris has resigned in a hissy fit as she was not selected. The seat is safe but the numbers will be interesting especially if the opposition can rally the people who usually sit out a safe seat vote.



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    #9204
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695537#Comment_120695537

    I'm not surprised. When I was living there, the place was a farce. There was a serious waste worker strike which caused rubbish to pile up, it took a year to get a poxy parking permit, countless building applications were rejected for ideological reasons and it took me 45 minutes of waiting to call the council to arrange council tax payment.

    I'm not a fan of the Greens at all. I think they just got lucky with Caroline Lucas. Hopefully, the seat flips red or yellow.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #9205
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Boris has now resigned too.

    He's going to run in Mad Nad's constituency I'm sure



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    #9206
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,297 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696084#Comment_120696084

    Boris Johnson said he had received a letter from the committee which is investigating whether he lied to MPs over partygate "making it clear, much to my amazement, that they are determined to use the proceedings against me to drive me out of Parliament".

    "It is very sad to be leaving parliament - at least for now - but above all I am bewildered and appalled that I can be forced out, anti-democratically, by a committee chaired and managed, by Harriet Harman, with such egregious bias."

    Also known as they are going to put me on blast and kick me out so I leave now to cause as much positive spin I can and hope they come beg me to come back later...



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    #9207
    .Donegal.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Worried about what was in his WhatsApp messages? Internal polling showed he’d lose his seat?



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    #9208
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696107#Comment_120696107

    He was willing to hand over the ones that might damage Sunak, when he thought that would still work as a way back.



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    #9209
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696101#Comment_120696101

    Trumpish bullshit. What a surprise.



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    #9210
    Ahwell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696084#Comment_120696084

    Yep, it's certain now he knows that the Privileges Committee is going to recommend a suspension from parliament for 10 days or more. All is needed then would be 10% of voters in Uxbridge to sign a petition demanding a byelection, which he would lose.



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    #9211
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    He's a worm

    Has never faced up to his responsibilities or consequences of his actions/words



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