Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

"Green" policies are destroying this country

Options
17507517537557561067

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,385 ✭✭✭prunudo


    The article and tone of the post was that it was a sign of the collapse of fossil fuel generation. We can't be 100% reliant on renewable generation, therefore it is prudent to make the most of solar during the summer months. Save the fossil fuels for winter when the others are lagging behind. We have to embrace a hybrid of all generation types, putting our eggs in one basket is foolish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Have to pull ya up on that one. Solar panels are more expensive now than 12 months ago, and that includes the removal of VAT



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Who proposed the all eggs in one basket scenario?

    As has always been the case, power generation will be split across a multitude of sources to mitigate risk e.g. wind, solar, interconnectors, hydrogen, hydro, various storage options (short and medium term) etc

    There is nobody, anywhere, proposing a grid of only 1-2 sources.



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    I am sympathetic to the idea of an area in which facilities are nearby, where small shops are not eaten up by corporates, where you can walk or cycle (i'm dutch) everywhere. To some extend a lot of cities are already going there with pedestrian areas etc banning cars from city centres. Im always relieved to get back to Holland and be able to cycle everywhere even to city centres without a problem (and no helmets!).

    I grew up in a newly created neighbourhood built in the 1920s on the edge of a city for working class people away from cramped city centres. Small shop owners lived above their premises. Butcher, baker, milkman, habedashery, veg man, fish monger, hair dresser, bank. Lots of trees around, close to the broad dunes and i had a wonderful youth. It is about as far from urban sprawl as you can get. I long for that world. Ive seen what the corporate world can do including gentrification. My old patch has now real estate shops, horse riding, fancy pancy shops for people with too much money. The rather small houses in the neighbourhood now go for between 500.000 and 1 million euro.

    So, urban planning to make this a reality has my support. However, many people including me feel that the concept of 15 minute cities will be used to make people comply to ever more stringent rules about just about everything, the house, the heating system, your transportation rights, tracking, carbon/social credit system like they have in China. They (and me) simply don't trust those in power to engineer a good living environment. You need a certain amount of freedom.

    And like you said, you can simply move to a town like i have. 5 min away from basic shops. So, i would suggest, create 15 min small to medium towns, support small shops, ban corporates and franchises and give sensible rates for those small businesses. I think a 15 min CITY however is a flawed concept.

    I think political affiliation does not really count here..



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,237 ✭✭✭crusd


    The cost of generation of power using solar panels has fallen through the floor. Including taking generation cost into account. Your outlook is micro. On the macro scale the efficiency and cost of solar panels is on a continuing downward curve





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,237 ✭✭✭crusd


     However, many people including me feel that the concept of 15 minute cities will be used to make people comply to ever more stringent rules about just about everything, the house, the heating system, your transportation rights, tracking, carbon/social credit system like they have in China. 

    That is a logical chasm from reality.

    15 minute city is not in anyway about keeping people within 15 minutes of their home. Its about putting the infrastructure in place to allow most people to have the necessities for day to day life within 15 minutes of their home. This is a positive thing.

    Where is the evidence that anyone outside a repressive authoritarian regime is planning anything like you suggest? At the moment the evidence seems to be "in China they do A,B, C and D. China is a repressive regime. What some people are proposing is a little bit like A when you make some strange logical leaps. Therefore what they actually want is to be exactly like China."

    Large sections of Manhattan and Brooklyn would be quite a bit down the road to 15 minute cities. Many neighbourhoods in those cities have the necessities for daily life within 15 minutes. The cities are far bigger than the 15 minute neighbourhoods. But within neighbourhoods you can life a reasonable 15 minute life. Within the broader structure of the city, and not restricted to any one area. The necessities with the 15 minute neighbourhoods and PT connections between them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Well for a start you are are you not ?

    Hydro is pretty much maxed out, so there is little or no generation that can be added from it. Interconnectors, hydrogen and storage options, whether short or medium term do not generate energy,

    So for generation you are now without fossil fuels, nuclear or biomass (which generates 60% of EU green energy and whiich in your own words is a con), you are now down to a grid of only 2 sources which "There is nobody, anywhere, proposing" Solar and wind.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    hydrogen and storage options, whether short or medium term do not generate energy

    By that logic, fossil fuels do not generate energy



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    We are back to the silly little childish games again are we ?

    Your reply to a post was, "There was nobody, anywhere, proposing a grid of only 1-2 sources".

    That is exactly what you and greens are proposing. With you being on here day and night doing so.

    Without nuclear, fossil fuels, biomass and bio-fuels, (in your own words both cons) then you are left with only 2 sources, of not just grid energy generation, but any energy generation. Wind and solar.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That is exactly what you and greens are proposing. With you being on here day and night doing so.

    Nope. Not sure why you chose to highlight one line from my post but ignore this line

    As has always been the case, power generation will be split across a multitude of sources to mitigate risk e.g. wind, solar, interconnectors, hydrogen, hydro, various storage options (short and medium term) etc

    What you are doing is adding 1+1 and getting 3 and then arguing why I am saying its 3 when I'm not.

    Strawman arguments are just silly, do better



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    As has always been the case, power generation will be split across a multitude of sources to mitigate risk e.g. wind, solar, interconnectors, hydrogen, hydro, various storage options (short and medium term) etc

    In the green world where the majority of our power is from wind and solar (no bad thing of course), when we need extra and we bring it in via interconnectors, is that counted as our emissions or somewhere else (or even double counting?) Like if the interconnector is to France and it's nucleur generated welectricity. Or coal generated? Or LNG from the UK or something. Where are the emissions attributed to?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm open to correction, but as I understand it, this is how it works.

    There are no emissions associated with the interconnectors per se as they are, basically, just power lines. Any emissions from the power generated would be recorded at the point of generation so if a coal plant is running, its emissions are logged for its generation, same with oil, gas etc. Where the power generated ends up going does not come into it, the emissions from the source are the emissions from the source and get recorded as such



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,385 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Hardly unexpected given the hurdles the minister has put in their way.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The same "hurdles" apply to all companies doing anything offshore



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    As I already pointed out to you hydro is tapped out. Interconnectors, hydrogen and your various storage options do not generate anything. That leaves just solar and wind.

    Your past posts have shown that mathematics is not exactly one of your strong points, but even you should be able to see that leaves just 2 sources. That makes a complete sham of your "There is nobody, anywhere, proposing a grid of 1-2 sources"

    That is what you and greens are proposing, and both are intermittent and unreliable.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hmm, maybe the issue is you are unaware of what a strawman argument is. This may help

    Let me know if you need further clarification on it, otherwise happy to debate you on the power generation topic if you can move beyond the strawman silliness



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Not only am I well aware of what a strawman argument is, I am aware that baically any child above the age of 4 years knows that 1+1 = 2. Something that you for whatever reason does not know.

    You made the statement that, "There is nobody, anywhere, proposing a grid of 1 -2 sources" and then with hydro tapped out, proposed just that from just two sources. Solar and wind.

    Not much point in your childish little hissy fits directed at me if you cannot add one to one and see it is two.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    More strawman 🤦‍♂️

    I'll leave you off, best of luck



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Then for all the gas we import to keep the lights on doesn't count towards our emissions? Is that right? Or the coal we import for the same job?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You`ll leave me off ? 😅

    Truth is you made yet another of your grandiose statement that turns out to be horse manure.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Again, as I understand it, the emissions from the power plants consuming those are counted at the power plant level

    Its the same with petrol & diesel, its counted where its consumed



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Are emissions not assigned to the country where the company pays tax? I thought that was the case with aviation.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    That would screw Ireland over bigtime given how much of the global leased stock is Irish flagged.

    From memory there was at least in the past something in civil aviation treaties that prohibited certain categories of fuel tax, probably to reduce headaches with extra-territoriality and overfly fees. What carbon taxes I have seen on avaiation all seem to be attached to landing fees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    OK. I read the original comment wrong. I took it up that the emissions were recorded at the source of the fuel, not where the power is generated. Apologies

    It is assigned to the country where the airline is registered. That's why Irelands emissions grew so much. This Eurostat graph shows the growth, majority of which can be attributed to Ryanair and the increased flights between Q3 2021 (during Covid restrictions) and Q3 2022




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    This is just a graph for illustration. In terms of binding targets and quotas, aviation isn’t assigned to any country. It’s in the Emissions Trading System/Cap and Trade for intra-EU flights. (Other flights are a bit different.)

    it’s the same for electricity generation and industrial emissions.

    building heating, transport and land use are the ones with agreed binding national targets (‘effort sharing’)



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Every graph is an illustration! Are you saying it's horseshit? I know aviation isn't assigned to anyone. The graph though is showing emissions from business in each country, regardless of where the emissions are generated. It's nothing to do with our emissions or targets or any such similar thing. Note that didn't stop people wailing over it when it was published, including regular contributors on this very thread



Advertisement