Private to Public sector: Salary

On reflection pretty much all of tech jobs (private or public) I have been involved in have been bespoke development. I thought for a while we would move away from it as many projects were outsourced but now its flipped and the main core project are inhouse and only none core systems are outsourced. Mainly due to poor support from outside vendors.

Seen project death by committee too often though.

Maybe you'd explain how "only" the private sector worker taxes fund public sector. How do they ring fence public sector workers tax so it's not used.

Ultimately without govt and roads and such private sector couldn't operate.

The point of the thread is the OP was looking at a job that even top of scale was lower then their current salary. It's like a general applying for a role of captain, then asking for the captain to be paid like a colonel.

Just apply for a job with the right salary in the first place.

This thread reminds me of friend who was earning 200k in a technical role and thought he could walk into that salary in a different sector. He learnt the hard way that seniority doesn't always cross different industries or sectors. Had to go get MSc and industry experience before they'd even talk to him.

If you are that specialized and in demand exceptions will be made. If not well...

I've good experience of working in both public and private sector.

So just want to add a couple of points.

In general working in the public sector is a more pleasant experience, potential for job satisfaction is many levels higher, the work tends to be more interesting, colleagues are more helpful and of course job security underpins the whole experience.

I would also point out to OP that the pension benefits, whilst lesser than they were pre-2013 are still unlikely to be matched by any private sector employer.

It's also likely that annual leave will be in excess of that offered privately and something which I found very strange initially, annual leave is annual leave, you are encouraged to take it and at almost all levels, people will do their damnedest not to contact you.

You should note however at the salary level referred to earlier, benefits such as flexi-time will not be available and it's likely that you'll be called upon to work longer hours when required (and during particularly fraught times, that can go on for a while).

I'm not getting into the debate around entry salary levels save to say that knowledge of how the public sector actually works is pretty important and that takes time to acquire.

So no negotiation...and no not "anywhere" in within the range.

Of course it would make more sense (than this daft thread) for any applicant public or private to apply for a higher grade than they are already on. Since people generally change jobs to get more money. Not to earn less money.

Downsizing is one thing. I'd argue wanting to get paid far in excess of what the job actually pays is a bit different. The OP is looking at a 30-40k difference and it's more looking for a lateral move.

We've all heard of embargos or limits being lifted as the situation demands. These forums suggest it's done both very rarely but also very frequently. No idea which is true. Need an interesting FOI request. "How many times have new hires started top of scale"

I personally have never seen it. But have seen hr play all sorts of games to get a "preferred" candidate to a grade that they think will hold them.

A lot depends on who is handling your contract.

in another instance the new public sector body didn’t even match my salary in previous similar role. I had no choice but to accept at the time as I was under a lot of pressure at home.

Whatever you think of the system, it's 100% transparent.

You know going into the interview what you're going to be paid. Up to you to make the call to proceed or not.

This is public money being spent, and hundreds of thousands of people employed. You absolutely cannot leave that open to local manager discretion.

Its protectionism of public personnel and makes it unlikely for a private sector employee with experience to apply. Its wrong and has to change or otherwise the future public sector will lose out on experienced candidates. I have two siblings who are lecturers in public sector and they have noted that its becoming problematic to hire good candidates due to this protectionism.

I've worked in private, self employment and the public sector. I've been in the public sector (not the civil service) for a good few years and am now reasonably senior. I do not work in IT!

I entered the public sector just as the last recession hit. I was self employed at the time and had small kids, and I needed the stability the public sector offered. The reason I've stayed in the public sector even as the economy has recovered and I have had some very good offers to move back to the private sector has been the job security but also in my case the pension. I had service and pension payments made from over 20 years ago during a couple of years on a short term contract I spent in the public sector that got me entered into one of the better pension schemes at the time and when I rejoined many years later I had the benefit of that. I work with colleagues now who entered the public service in recent years and their pensions would not be a reason to stay (although still better than a lot of private sector ones).

The public sector is never going to compete with the private sector for salaries in some roles, especially those in high demand like IT professionals. It makes perfect sense to outsource these sorts of roles. The costs long term of recruiting large numbers of persons on very high salaries would be huge, not forgetting the backlash from the usual suspects if for example the civil service advertised IT specialists on €200k a year. Just look at the ire anyone in the HSE for example gets if they are on a high salary and aren't a front line heath worker.

The gap in salary does make it more difficult to recruit into the public sector, especially younger people and recent graduates who have a different mindset to my generation and the 'public sector job for life.' That concept doesn't appeal to a lot of the younger generation - they move jobs more freely and want a different type of workplace to what the public sector can offer (I'm generalising but this is based on what my younger colleagues and kids tell me). At the moment I have a range of roles vacant in my portfolio of responsibilities with salaries up to €100k that I can't fill.

One of the risks that occurs at times like this (full employment and high wages) is that the best performers will stay in the private sector and the mediocre ones will enter the public service and stay for life. I have seen this happen first hand when comparing the quality of candidate from 2010 recession times years ago with now - there is no comparison with a lot of roles.

When thinking about salaries and entry points you need to remember that in the public service the role and not the individual determines the salary. Certainly in my organisation we have detailed metrics for assigning grades to new roles and for very senior roles use external job grading systems like the Hay System. Just because you have 10 years in a role in the private sector and are asked to enter at point 1 of a scale in the public sector whilst someone who has been in the role for 5 years and is on point 5 of the scale doesn't mean you have more experience than that person. In all likelihood that person has gained experienced elsewhere to meet the minimum criteria for that role. That said flexibility in appointing people to a higher point on a scale is always a good thing and I have had that option in my organisation for a good few years and I use it a lot (I was appointed near the top of my scale at the time over ten years ago).

The public sector is vast, it is not just the civil service. There is no one homogeneous culture across the hundreds of thousands of workers, nurses are not the same as the person answering the phone in a government department. For me if I was to contemplate a move into the public sector as well as salary and tenure, the other overriding issue would be culture. I know someone who moved into the civil service from a public sector body and lasted a couple of moths due to the toxic culture. I on the other hand work in a very pleasant organisation. If you enter at a senior level you will be pushed hard and challenged and it's not a case of minimal effort at all - I look at what Principal Officers on €110-120k get paid and the hours they work and the level of responsibility they have and I think no way would I do that.

You can just apply a position where 1st point on the scale is higher or the same as your current salary. Then it's a non issue, and protects no one.

Public and private sector are struggling to fill roles because salaries are not viable due to cost of living and housing.

The same one as the last time we had this conversation.