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new underhand style of moderation

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Comments

  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,708 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Another angle to throw in here

    A re-reg troll posted in this thread. I banned them and deleted all their content. In this case it was a single post and I can refer to it here. I would not normally make any reference and would have deleted any replies without comment if seen. These trolls get no oxygen from me. And when deleting all content of a poster like that there is actually no audit trail of where and what they posted. As I say in this case there was a single post that I can refer to here to help illustrate my point

    Now I try and deal with all PMs from users. That takes a lot of time. In fact I find it takes a large proportion of my time on this site. I have said repeatedly in this forum and in Feedback, both pre and post migration - if I am deleting a post any notification to any relevant posters will be very much the exception. I am not going to open up PM discussions. If a poster wishes go PM me about it I will engage. I really do not think I would have time to do so if I notified posters every time I delete their quote of a re-reg troll, or indeed a chain of posts replying to an abusive comment or something that otherwise breaches site rules

    And to put a bit of context re the quantity of potential PM discussions that may flow - the busiest thread in CA, The Russia one, has had around 1,600 posts deleted. The Biden thread 370. Trump 540. The Gangland Shootings thread 530, The Schofield thread 100.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,876 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    No one is asking for a pm when a post is deleted

    All I'm suggesting is it would be better, where appropriate, to edit the post to say you've removed the offending remark and why.

    Say for example something that a mod considers off topic.

    The post is removed. The poster doesn't know why, and would only see that it's removed if they review. So they are left then not knowing who removed it and why.

    Surely, and obviously, it would be better just to edit the post with "post removed. Off topic - mod x"


    Who is that such a difficult thing for they mods to take on board?



  • Administrators Posts: 14,406 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Because editing each individual post with a comment (even if copied and pasted) can take much much longer than batch selecting the 25-50-100 posts that need to be deleted and clicking "Delete" and removing them all in one go.

    I have had to delete multiple posts in forums. I have had to start at the first offending post, then read through every post on the thread following to see who referenced it, quoted it, replied to it, argued with it etc. I have simply selected each post that needed to be deleted and deleted them. And even that takes quite an amount of time. A thread full of edited posts saying "post removed. Off Topic" would quickly become very tiresome for posters scrolling through, and it wouldn't look good on the thread to have post after post saying "post removed".

    Actually removing the posts is a far cleaner, simpler and efficient way of dealing with posts that shouldn't be on the thread.

    Yes, one post after all that to say "Off-topic posts deleted" would be very helpful, and in fairness is something moderators regularly use. But editing each individual post rather than deleting is not something I would be in favour of. It would quickly lead to feedback threads asking why are there 100s of "post removed" posts and why are they not just removed altogether.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,538 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I don't think anybody is asking for the offending post and all the posts that quote it to be edited. Edit the offending post to say that it is being removed and all posts that quote it will be deleted.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,406 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    But that's assuming there's 1 offending posts and only all replies to it are problematic.

    There could be a large number of unrelated posts that need to be deleted. Off topic, petty arguments, backseat modding, personal abuse, etc. I think editing posts with "Post removed" will lead to an awful lot of edited posts PLUS deleted posts.

    I suppose it's something to consider and might be worth trialing, but it would really be up to the moderators in those busy, fast moving forums to decide whether they think it is a workable solution in their particular forum.

    Already moderators do leave "off topic posts deleted" notes occasionally. I think this should suffice rather than editing individual posts to say they've been deleted.

    As I said, I'm open to considering it, if moderators think it is workable and will be a benefit rather than a hindrance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭nachouser


    It might also be worth considering closing threads when the OP of the thread has been banned. Not retrospectively, but just to close down such threads in the future. If they've gotten themselves banned from their own thread with their a-few-days-old account posting in CA, well...



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,708 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    The problem with that particular thread is it is a very valid discussion. I would normally have done a "delete all" with that particular re-reg, but that thread is the reason I did not. There is so much content already in the thread and closing it would take away further discussion of many points already made, or repeating such discussion in a new thread

    A lot of that poster's posts have been deleted already and we continue working through reports from that thread in particular



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭Packrat


    "Busy fast moving forums"

    I dunno, I'm just not buying it...

    When the site had multiples of its current user base, mods didn't have to resort to just deleting posts without comment or otherwise.

    Most of the forums are tumbleweed.

    Contrary to what Beasty tries to imply, - it's not just rereg trolls who get their comments deleted either, it's happening on a widespread basis recently.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭nachouser




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  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,708 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    I never tried to imply anything of the sort. I even gave numbers of posts deleted from specific threads in my earlier post. My underlying message was nothing whatsoever to do with re-reg trolls. It was entirely to do with the amount of time I spend engaging with posters on this site and the fact I do not feel any kind of obligation to engage further than I currently do



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,613 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    When the site was busier, it was on a platform with vastly superior mod tools. Those are gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,119 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    I've been a "victim" of this in the last 24 hours. At least one post deleted, maybe more, no warnings received so assumed no charter breaches in the post(s), no mod note.

    I don't think it's too unreasonable to ask that where posts are being deleted and its not in a case like Beasty outlined above that the mod puts up a 1 liner to say

    "EGDN, couple of posts deleted, keep on topic"

    Or what ever the reason was. It would literally take 20 seconds to do it.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,876 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Was it in a particularly "fast moving" thread?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,119 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Probably averaging 10 posts a day over the last week or thereabouts so I would say no tbh.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,876 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    The thread that I had my post removed from has had 12 posts in the last 3 days, and had about 5 posts in it on the day at the time it was removed.

    I don't at all buy the "fast moving thread" excuse.

    At its core is its simplicity and it's ease of action. It's absolutely not about "the most appropriate action".

    It makes life easy on the mod, so it's used so often



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,362 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Vanilla’s a bit sh1t, innit…



  • Administrators Posts: 14,406 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    I cannot speak for all moderators. Only myself. I regularly add notes saying "x number of off-topic posts deleted". Sometimes I just delete an off-topic post and don't leave a note because the thread has moved on. Sometimes I PM the poster and explain that I've removed their post, rather than issue a warning.

    I also understand that some moderators are dealing with forums and threads and reported posts an awful lot busier than my forums.

    I have taken your points on board. I have contacted every moderator group with a link to this thread and asked that the comments are taken on board and that efforts are made to make decisions more transparent for posters.

    I hope this is a satisfactory response to your original complaint.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,598 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien




  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,708 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    I dealt with 34 reports last night in an hour including one where you had responded and a number of related posts were deleted. That was between just before 11pm and just before 12pm

    I was not going to spend even more time explaining every post I deleted during that time



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,876 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    thank you BBoC, i personally couldnt ask for anything more than my view to be taken on board, so thank you again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    It's an internet forum lads. Some people take it too seriously. The mods have a difficult job. Let them delete posts if it makes it easier for them. It's not as if they're deleting anything that important.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,119 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    The issue I have is that I dont know why the posts were deleted, if they were breaches of the charter, abusive, whatever Id have gotten a card so if I wasnt carded, a one liner to say the reason why would have been helpful. Maybe that is too much to expect 🤷‍♂️



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,279 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    I would imagine that the very vast majority of posts that I find the need to Delete are Off Topic posts or possibly they Quoted a post that has received a Warning or were off topic too. Some Mods do post - 'A few off topic posts deleted, get back on track please' - type commnets, some don't.

    To be honest, if a post of mine was deleted ( and I was not given a Warning) I would simply presume that it was considered Off Topic and move on.

    But a PM to the Forum Mods would scratch that itch if I Really needed to know.

    A Mod could be dealing with a few issues between different threads/forums/bans/DRP's/warnings/pm's/reported posts etc at one time and therefore it is easier to simply Delete and Not post a one liner every time. But if a Mod had time when Deleting a post, I do think that a one liner should be posted.

    But is should not be a policy that Mods Have to post when a Deletion is done - as often they might be busy, as explained but they could reply to a PM at a later stage when they might not be as busy - I hope that makes sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,598 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    But a PM to the Forum Mods would scratch that itch if I Really needed to know.

    Is replying to posters DM's asking for clarity on mod actions not going to take longer than a mod note at the end of deletions like, "I've deleted several off topic posts, please keep to the topic at hand"?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,279 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    But a PM can be sent at a later stage, when the Mod might not be as busy, the next day for example - but a message on a thread Has to be done straight away really as the thread moves on quickly.

    Also the PM would not take longer at all, as you would be simply saying - Because it was considered Off Topic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,430 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If they remember why they deleted it from memory. If theyve been busy and DM sent next day thats not a certainty. Otherwise they have to go find the post and review action taken no?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,279 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Correct, however, as I mentioned previously, the very vast majority of posts I delete are because they are Off Topic. If there was a different reason - I very much doubt I would forget by the following day in fairness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,533 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Maybe moderators would have more time for moderating if they spent less time giving life coaching ‘advice’ to posters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭pjcb


    It may actually save them time in the future to explain each post deletion, as it would inform posters about what might get deleted and thus might prompt then not to post such stuff in future which would save the mods time in the long run.





  • Ok then, I know the site has become cumbersome and mods under pressure to do a thankless task, but the quick insertion of (hypothetical example):

    “MOD NOTE @RTS I deleted a post of yours as it named a person who shouldn’t be named in the context of this discussion. Posters, please be careful not to name individuals. L1011

    🙂



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  • Administrators Posts: 14,406 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Moderators are posters too, and are perfectly entitled to post when and where they like on the forum. Being a moderator does not preclude anyone from also being a poster.

    If you ever have any problem with any post or poster you know what to do.

    I will lock this thread at this stage because the issue has been addressed and will be monitored. I see no reason to leave it open for lazy potshots at volunteer moderators.



This discussion has been closed.
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