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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,804 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    A friendly reminder on how the Kherson counteroffensive started and was reported on. When there's a media blackout on the Ukrainian side, people are left with only Russian videos and reports. How they can make a judgement or prediction based on Russian reports is beyond laughable at this stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    That isn't true. They have drafted conscripts and i've personally spoken to Ukrainians here who had to avoid border checks to leave Ukraine. It is what it is but it certainly isn't volunteering when you're told you can't leave the country and face a draft.

    Beverly Hills, California



  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭WheelieKing


    Reading back a good few of the regulars rounded on one knowledgeable poster in particular for suggesting same despite it being obvious this wouldn't be a cake walk.

    It's important to remember that this is a war, losses will happen. Attacking entrenched positions is difficult, and it's going to be brutal, bloody, soul destroying work. Ukraine are going to lose a lot of men and a lot of equipment in this counteroffensive, even if it goes well. Pointing this out does not make one a putinbot or whatever other guff the usual suspects throw around.

    The Leopard tanks are not ornaments, they're there to be used and they're going to be put in harms way and destroyed. We need to be prepared to see a lot more videos like we witnessed yesterday. Russians will use this as propaganda just like Ukrainians will use the destruction of Russian equipment and men for their own purposes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭WheelieKing


    Give up?? He's a poster on the site not fighting on the front line. I don't think a lad/lass taking a few days off looking at the news about the war is going to make any difference to the outcome tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭IdHidden


    Claire’s peace loving Russians hitting a supermarket with artillery.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭paul71


    No they have not, up until this point Ukraine has only recalled reservists, which they had 750,000 of before this war. They do have a draft system which requires men in a certain age bracket and not in excluded professions to REGISTER for the military draft. That is what the people you have spoken to have fled, but they have not called people into the army from that draft yet.


    They have drafted several thousand specialists, medical staff, engineers, electricians for roles that require specific skills. There are no brigades of front line troops in the Ukrainian army made up of conscripts, and that is fact. The Ukrainian army consists of the professional core army of 250,000 that existed at the start of the war, the few hundred thousand called up reservists called up from the 750,000 reservists who existed at the start of the war, the couple of hundred thousand volunteers who have joined up since the war started less the estimated 100k to 150k, casulaties since the war begin. The final figure a couple of thousand conscripted specialists. No draft call up has yet occurred.


    Not has no draft yet occurred they still have not called up all their reservists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭IdHidden


    Seen this bullshit before. Russia was so desperate for men it had to raid the prisons while the Ukrainians have an over subscription in their last mobilisation.

    Also Ukraine has a constant state of the art training programme in NATO countries while Russia is actually struggling to train it troops as most of its experienced troops were wiped out.

    Why do you think the Russian Telegram bloggers are crying out for an another round mobilisation, because they have too many troops?

    Why do you think nearly a million Russia men between 18-40 have left the country in the past year?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    Again, not true. You're just avoiding the fact you are wrong instead of learning from it.

    Civilians are being drafted that were never reservists.

    Beverly Hills, California



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭paul71


    You know it is funny SortYouOut. I read that article 2 hours ago. You clearly did not. It actually confirms what I said.


    Nothing in the article about any single man in Ukraine registered for the draft who has yet been called up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    That dude is infamous for this Chicken Little takes whenever things hit the slightest snag for Ukraine.

    This was posted, specifically about him, a few months ago:





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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    That was in the city of Uman. Did Russia not strike an ammunition depot which caused a massive explosion. This supermarket is probably in close enough proximity the blast wave did this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭vixdname


    Could they not have just simply bombed the same area twice ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    You may need to read it again and refer back to your original point of this being a volunteer force. There are men firing a rifle for the first time in their life after being pulled up on the street on their draft status, that isn't just volunteering or a reservist force. There are men having to do something they do not want to do, so how is that volunteering? Them having seen action or not is not relevant to your point, they're now enlisted in the armed forces and training, so how can you say with a straight face that the army "is still a volunteer army" when there are men there who don't want to be?

    http://archive.today/BmWg0

    When Russia invaded in February last year, thousands of volunteers lined up outside military recruitment centers. With many of them now dead or injured, Ukrainian authorities are scrambling to recruit replacements, often drafting those who have neither the desire nor the training to serve. The result is a growing number of fighting-age men who are attempting to evade service.

    "Volunteering"


    Beverly Hills, California



  • Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭Mike3549




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,460 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I cant say wether they have or havent conscripted people into their military , the laws are definitely there that they can , the vast majority of ukrainian troops are volunteer's..

    And its also illegal for fighting age men to leave the country ..

    Edit . Just read pauls post above , a lot more accurate , and more info , and the fact that theres conscription and a draft .

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,804 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    I spotted that. The user calling him out actually retweeted his own tweet to pretty much confirm what he suspected would be said when the counteroffensive starts.

    But it's more down to the little bit of info/videos we got at the start of the Kherson counteroffensive, where people on here we're saying it was a failure etc....

    Same thing repeating now. Eerily similar to the D-Day landings, especially the timing. Some beach landings will have a harder time punching through the defences etc...

    Just need to have patience and let the AFU do what they do best and have been trained to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭paul71


    Jesus man, you cannot read!


    You are confusing a draft with conscription. A draft is a list, nothing more of men eligible to be conscripted. Some men are avoiding being placed on the draft, that is a precursor to conscription. A call up from the draft is conscription.


    LETS BE VERY CLEAR. NO CALL FROM THE DRAFT HAS HAPPENED IN UKRAINE. A draftee is not conscript until he has been conscripted and no-one has yet been conscripted


    The Ukrainian army today is a mixed professional, called up reservist and volunteer army.


    Your failure to understand the difference between a draftee/a conscript/a reservist/a professional does not change the fact that Ukraine is not operating a conscript army.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    As early as last March men were forcibly conscripted, they didn't volunteer.

    http://archive.today/CexET

    So far Ukraine has forcibly enlisted only those with combat experience, even if much of that experience was derived from conscription. 

    Men who only had experience because of conscription being conscripted because of their conscription. A whole lot of conscription.

    As I said, it is what it is and they're at war with an invader so needs must but we can't call them a volunteer force when they actively conscript, when the very definition of the word is compulsary military service.

    Beverly Hills, California



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    http://archive.today/CexET

    So far Ukraine has forcibly enlisted only those with combat experience, even if much of that experience was derived from conscription. 

    As early as March last year. Keep digging though, they might get you out to the trenches yet.

    Beverly Hills, California



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭paul71


    Called up reservist only are referred to in that article. A reservist joins the army, he made the decision to do so, suddenly saying you do not want to be in the army after a war starts is not F*****g conscription.


    A reservist is a reservist, a conscript is a conscript, a draftee is a draftee and an orange is an orange not an apple.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    No, not reservists. Former servicemen, it is right there for you. Also there is the word forcibly, but no doubt you'll dance around that too so I say we agree to disagree.

    Beverly Hills, California



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Looks like 4 American Bradleys, a Polish Brem and a Leopard 2A6. Ouch. Hopefully some crew survived.

    The way they are grouped together, I think they were at the front of the column I described previously (getting attacked by KA-52 gunship). I'll have to go back and check but that video had a bunch of destroyed vehicles arranged very similar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Mraps , Bradleys and leopards stopped and abandoned or destroyed on the 8th





  • Registered Users Posts: 8,460 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I saw pics the ukrainians put up of a damaged leopard , that they'd recovered ,

    The impication was that they'd secured the ground , ( at least enough for recovery)

    That the vehicle was repairable , and the crew had survived

    Wether all that was true ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Some of these destroyed vehicles were geolocated to way inside Ukrainian lines. They were taken out from a distance by Russian gunships with long-range missiles. So it's certainly possible that some vehicles were recovered.

    However there's a lot of different footage and photos floating around now so i'm not sure which are which. There's some people online doing good work geolocating the images so I would keep an eye on those sites/accounts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭paul71


    That is an article written by a journalist, he happens to be incorrect. Do you want to know the specialists with skills required in short demand were called SortingYouOut, because I do know who specialist skill that was called up SortingYouOut. They called up Accountants sortingyouout, they had a shortage of payroll specialist to deal with the volunteers.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Might not be the leopard that has hit by artillery along side Bradleys and mraps ,

    There will always be an element of downplaying Ukrainian loses either on social media or here



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,804 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    There was a video of some abandoned/damaged/stuck vehicles being recovered the other day by Ukraine. Video was posted after the Russian drone footage. But it's impossible to know when or where it was taken.

    But if they were recovering vehicles, they appeared to have taken and secured that specific ground.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,107 ✭✭✭threeball


    I very much doubt they are commiting too much forward at this time. I'm imagine its mainly APC's, probing getting troops into position before getting out of dodge before returning with another batch. Troops are hard to target whilst vehicles are easy meat if they're stopped for even a short period. Troops can move from cover to cover and they can always call in artilery strikes if the going gets hot. I'd be very surprised if they're committing too many tanks to the frontline as the moment as you're essentially hanging them out to dry.



This discussion has been closed.
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