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Random EV thoughts.....

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    its the former, and thats why they do it. 15 km journey for instance taking 30 minutes in stop start traffic it would be easy to spend half the time on EV. But do the same distance with no traffic and you wont.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    The engine will turn off driving along if there is no need for it, you would hardly notice it turning off and on, its automatic, if you ease off on the accelerator it would just glide along at 100 kph, it was the start of the one foot driving way before EVs, pulse and glide, its not hard to do,

    but everyone is used to ice driving, so its accelerate till the next bend and then brake and accelerate some more, with EVs and hybrids its accelerate, glide/regen and accelerate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,343 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    yeah, their probably not saying Mary spent 15 minutes driving down the motorway for 30km in petrol mode, and spent the last 15 minutes in electric mode driving the 3km to her office from the motorway exit..... just doesn't sound as awesome when they bring facts and data into it...



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yes and Ive had a few priuseseses in my time I know how it works. Not a hope of doing 75% of any journey in EV mode.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Mary probably works from home and her "commute" was a 2km round-trip to drop the kids off at school and get milk from the shop while not going over 30km/h 😏

    Easy enough to do 50% of that on electric

    Also where did the electricity that she was using to propel the car come from in the first place? Unless Toyota have some way to violate the law of conservation of energy then it came from the petrol engine

    Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if they claimed they created energy from nothing 😂

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,343 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    The typical answer I used to get from their various dealers on Facebook before they all blocked me was that it came from regen… but when I pointed out to them that regen was just simply a way to capture some energy that had already been expended, they’d hit that block button on me….



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    If you compare marys journey in a hybrid and the same in a diesel and then take into account idling, reversing, waiting at a junction it could easily hit 75%, I will grant you that on a motorway trip it would be no way near 50 %, there is only a 1.4 kWh battery in most hybrids, it does not take much to charge them or deplete them, anyway I am sure the gliding done in a hybrid would be counted by Toyota as EV driving.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Just in case you weren't fed up of me talking about boats:

    Points for having an awesome looking render, I really like the Titanic style stacks that are actually fold out rigid sails covered in solar panels

    Has some cool ideas, for example the azipods on the rear can retract into the ship to streamline the hull. And it has a sort of air curtain thing on the bow which creates a "lubricating" surface of air bubbles along the ship so it basically KY gels it's way across the sea

    At around 400 passengers this ship is a far cry from the largest cruise ships, but it's possible the ideas here can be scaled up to bigger ships

    Of course the biggest drawback is that they haven't actually built it 😕

    It'd be nice if they put some more effort into the construction rather than making some nice renders

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Good salesmen never let things like the laws of physics get in the way of a marketing campaign

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    True, but the only way to start with a full battery is to have charged it from the petrol engine. So EV mode is really just using petrol that was burnt earlier

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,049 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Anyone else get the email from ESB eCars saying you have to have €20 credit in your account before charging will start? That's very sneaky.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭eagerv


    I have an even better idea, why not attach some aerofoil shaped material onto those masts. And travel under wind power..😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah, they can get f**ked IMO, I've €12 in my account and I'm not topping up to queue to charge up with €5 of electricity

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I think the giant wing thingy also functions as an airfoil

    But yeah I kinda wonder why they need to reinvent the sail

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,343 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Yeah, those big Solar wings will act like aerofoils, like what the previous generation Americas Cup boats had as their mail sail, which was rigid, and generated some serious power




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭cannco253




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭mailforkev


    Interesting article with the VW boss in the IT today about using Ireland as a test bed for a direct sales model. I can see some sweaty palmed dealers in the future.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/06/09/vws-global-boss-facing-hard-road-ahead-from-his-forever-home-in-ireland/



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭wassie


    That was interesting. Using Ireland as a test case is concerning as its been flagged before that the agency model may breach European antitrust laws. Car makers can choose what vehicle distribution model they want to impliment. But they cannot combine different models and to take advantage of the benefits of both to the detriment of the consumer.

    The other point of interest in that article was the acknowlegement of importance of software. R&D used to be focued on the hardware, but these days software is just as critical and as costly. This is where the likes of Tesla and BYD are ahead of the game.

    I did find this concerning:

    “In the software world, speed is the other side. And that’s why I am so pushy with governments; we need to create this environment in which we can try out things, especially autonomous driving.

    “In China, we can bring something on the road, test it, review it, optimise it. In the European space specifically, we are still too slow.”

    Or in otherwords, in an autocracy, human life is worth less than in a democracy.

    Schäfer sees this as another opportunity for Ireland to take a lead and allow for advanced autonomous testing, though perhaps not on our rural roads, where he struggles to comprehend 80km/h speeds can be warranted.

    Im on the roads all over the country a lot for work and already see enough scary shite on our roads - I'd rather Ireland isnt used as a proving ground.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,343 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    ^^ Yeah, they can go to the U.K. for any of that sh1te... they've no rules or regulations that can't be bought out anymore for the right donations...

    Also strange that they'd want to use a RHD market as their testbed for autonomous driving!



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,049 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Most of that article is yada yada yada, he got that article published because the boss above him was questioning why he wasn't living in Germany to be at their beck and call 24 seven. Such a load of self serving bullshite, none of which will come to fruition.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭LasersGoPewPew


    I'm happy with a direct sales model if prices lower and with no added dealer related charges.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭wassie


    Dealers make very little margin on new cars, as much as a couple of hundred euro. The main profit comes from selling accessories, upgrades & finance. Also, what you don't pay in a transparent dealer charge will be offset somewhat by a commission thats hidden in the fixed sale price.

    It also means no dealers competiting with each other for your custom, so no more comparison shopping. Most people are propbably ok with this, but those of us whom like to negiotiate will lose out. Im in the latter camp and hence have a bias against the agency model.

    Also if you have a difficult issue to resolve, you wont neccessarily be able to force your local agent to deal with it, as they didnt sell you the car.

    Be in no doubt, this is not being driven by a desire to bring cheaper cars to market, its about increasing the profit margin for the manufacturer, regardless of how it is dressed up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    The poor dealers. Literally fighting for scraps 😥



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I'm not a fan of the legacy negotiation model. It's always struck me that if a company want's to make a good margin on cars they'll balance it out any discounts given to one customer by being less flexible with another. I believe if two people buy the same car they should pay the same price.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    They are not needed these days, for new cars, most people want to simply click buy online. I know I'd rather click buy and collect the car from NVD than pay 1k plus in margin for a fancy coffee and multicolored socks. Keep dealers for used car sales and for repairs etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,343 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Legacy dealers will most likely end up as new car collection depots, service depots, and the used car market will be their cream on top...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭wassie


    Tesla demonstrated earlier this year that 2 customers can buy the same car a day apart and pay a different price....to the tune of several thousand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    I don't really get the max a couple of hundred euro margin with the ability to bargain. Surely if they have only have a couple of hundred to play with there is no scope for bargaining? Of is it the case they may only have a couple of hundred in the minority of cases where they come up against a hardened bargainer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Redfox25


    It's the trade in where they fleece you too, throw on all the optional extras and finance and that's where they get a few quid.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭wassie


    In a normal times, dealers would discount for a number of reasons. Often its all about timing. Excess stock, new model runouts, end of the month/quarter/year targets. Its all a numbers game. The negotiation on a new car is less about price and more about getting extras thrown in. Although in the case of a new EV, getting a fully charged battery doesnt quite feel like the same win as a full tank of fuel.

    My point is that I think that the Agency model is not necessarily whats best for consumers - its whats best for the manufacturers bottom line.

    And before anyone gets the wrong idea, Im no fan of car salesman in the slightest. I rate them with parking inspectors.



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