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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Yeah true enough if a wing gets Injured as i said Ringrose can filter out there and i do think that if ringrose is missing aki starts 12 and henshaw starts 13.

    What I was saying was that crowley and Jimmy o brien offers more cover than the byrne and aki combo.. I wasn't just focusing on aki v job.

    if Keenan gets injured/concussed as we saw v England this year JOB or maybe even crowley can slot straight into Full back. Hansen maybe can cover full back I'm not sure he played there much this season for Connacht. Lowe hasn't played there in Ireland.

    Ps England away last year by the time henshaw came on England had been playing with 14 men for over and hour. Easier make an impact.

    Wales this year Bundee came on for 20 minutes. Wales were down to 14 men for 10 of those. He Made no passes, 2 tackles and made 7 metres.

    France this year. Bundee came on for 15 minutes.. made no passes 3 tackles and made 8 meters and conceded a turn over.

    The 1st test v Nz we lost. Played 24 minutes. Made a total of 2 metres and got a try.

    2nd test. Ringrose got injured early so aki was on for an hour. Played well. But not really the impact sub situation we are talking about.

    I think Hansen and Lowe played joint most minutes for ireland in the 6 nations and keenan rarely comes off so very difficult to say a back 3 sub made an impact this year as there has been no situation where we have had one coming on for 20 minutes similar to Aki.


    Which comes First the chicken or the egg? Hard for a back 3 player to make an impact off the bench if there are none picked there... but Jimmy o brien did very well v both South africa and England last season when asked to come in as injury cover for mid game for keenan and mccloskey.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Maybe, I was assuming he was referring to the 5 between JGP and Lowe.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The charge down was fair enough - that's work rate. Fluffing a mountain of kicks is a different story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I’d agree with this but haven’t they played poorly against the same team three times in a row?

    There are things la rochelle do that make leinster play poorly.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭El Vino


    If only we had a thread dedicated to the Champions Cup final



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    99%. Wee bit arrogant.

    I can see both sides to be honest. But just the simple fact of attack playmaking doesn't sit totally right with me.

    Organisation and discipline make up a huge part of it.

    Would you say somebody who gets a higher number of intercepts is a playmaker?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Video on Hugo Keenan's performances ove the last two seasons. I think he's the best 15 in the world and the next best isn't particularly close. Been a privilege to watch him.




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You can find like for like plays with Haley



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    No you couldn't. Fine player as he is though.

    Most ridiculous timing onto the ball I've seen.

    Gaps he spots is easy for "play makers".

    Highball, defense, passing...no where near



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No, you absolutely can’t. Whatever you can find will be largely against the likes of Zebre and the Scarlets, whereas the first 6 or 7 clips in that Keenan video are against France, the All Blacks, Toulouse etc.

    Haley is a solid player, but he’s not remotely in Keenan’s class.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭Shehal


    If he was from the SH the fan community would be creaming they're jocks over him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Keenan is one of the few Irish players who would walk into any other team in the world. Absolute Cadillac of a player



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Keenan is fantastic. I think he's better than Kearney ever was.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,004 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    No. A player who gets lots of intercepts wouldn't be called a playmaker for that. Same as one that gets lots of turnovers or lineout steals.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Different players, different era's.

    People forget how good kearney was on the break when younger and allowed.

    I cannot think of any fullback who had better positional sense in his role than him. A lot of teams had two in the back field, we had one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Right so. I'm not sure what a playmaker is any more.

    Is it a risk taker, mad offloads..ala Russel or something different?

    I'm not picking on you at all, I'm interested in people's opinions. Different to mine, excellent. I don't mind being turned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Jean Kleyn has been named in South Africa's extended world cup squad. Best of luck to him. Might have an easier time of making that squad than ours amazingly enough. Shows the depth Ireland has in the second row these days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Jean Kleyn named in the south African training squad. I was a bit surprised after the season he had that he missed out on the Irish squad but it makes a bit more sense now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,316 ✭✭✭✭phog


    He should be in the Irish Squad, time will tell if that move comes back to bite us.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,631 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    The overreactions to this are going to be painful



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    To me, a playmaker is a guy who as the name implies can make plays and generate line breaks and try scoring opportunities.

    Someone who defences have to be super alert to because of their ability to spark an attack. Modern game prime examples of this for me would be: Damian McKenzie, Richie Mo’unga, Damian Willemse, Antoine Dupont and Marcus Smith.

    I think it’s players who the defence have to respect both their breaking / carrying game and their passing / distribution game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭letsbefair


    Can't see him making the team given the competition. Will Munster be allowed keep another high cost NIQ player?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    His treatment by Farrell is mystifying to never have him in a single squad since taking over, to never even look at him in training or to pick him for a tier 2 autumn international. Truly bizarre. Especially in a period where we also lost Roux and have a lack of genuinely powerful locks.

    I have to assume there's something more to this situation than we know since it makes little sense otherwise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭Shehal


    I don't know if it would be wise of Kleyn to accept a Bok cap. Whether it be Ireland or SA he's likely to only get a handful of caps at best but if those caps are Bok caps that could affect his future of playing professional rugby in Ireland if NIQ spots are in short supply.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I think the most obvious answer is that Farrell doesn't rate him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    He's a pretty limited player, and has been no loss to Ireland. Another in a long line of Munster heroes who are bang average .



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    To be fair he hasn't really stood out in any fashion up to this season



  • Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭jonnreeks


    I'd be more interested in Steve Kenny's team for the game against Greece next weekend, much more current!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    That's fair enough and I agree.

    But for me, that's only one side of it.

    How many points come from breakdowns and tactics from there?

    It takes a different type of playmaker to spot these opportunities and make them work.

    Might not be a 50 metre break and dancing through half the opponents team, but sometimes more effective...again in my opinion.



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