Waterford GAA Thread - Mod note post #1

Cork and Clare yes I'd agree with. I'd also add Tipp to that. Offaly have produced a decent crop but need to follow it up with more.

Galway are a unique case. Capable of producing brilliant minors but can't get it together at under 20/21 and I'm not convinced by their senior team.

I think I said before that while Waterford are falling behind the other 4 in Munster at underage, I also think every other county is also falling behind them. They just don't play them as much.

How does one go about analysing Waterford’s remarkable victory over Tipperary last Sunday week? The contrast with their performances in the two previous games, and the team’s generally insipid and directionless play since the beginning of the year, could hardly have been greater. The big question is: what factors contributed to this sudden change of fortune?

The comments by media pundits that I have heard and the match reports I have read, and virtually all of the observations posted on this forum (with the possible exception of blueflame’s) have completely missed key aspects of what was different about Waterford on this occasion. 

Many people have pointed to Tipperary’s flat performance following the huge effort they put in against Limerick the previous Sunday, coupled with them taking Waterford for granted (which would be understandable given their pitiful efforts against Cork and Clare). While there is certainly some substance in this, it still fails to explain why Waterford suddenly produced a brand of hurling we have not seen from them since at least the league final last year.

Others have pointed to a greatly increased effort on the part of the Waterford players and Davy Fitzgerald suddenly seeing the light and allowing the players to more-or-less do their own thing. Placing Dessie Hutchinson and Patrick Fitzgerald close to goal has also been highlighted, although this does not explain the great supply of good ball which they got for much of the game.

When asking myself what was different between this game and Waterford’s previous games this year, three things stuck out. The first was the sight of Peter Queally on the sideline for the first time since Davy took over. The second was the selection of Billy Nolan as sweeper, which had a huge impact on the game. And the third was Waterford’s completely new game plan, which for me was profoundly different from anything I have seen before from any team team under Davy Fitzgerald’s management. The key question then is: to what extent are these three events interlinked?

One obvious link is the fact that Peter Queally was coach of Roanmore for three years before he threw in his lot with Davy. One of Queally’s major innovations in that role was to take Billy Nolan out of goal (where he had come to prominence with Waterford under-age teams) and use him outfield. If I remember correctly, Queally initially placed Nolan at wing forward (in 2020), presumably with the idea of using him as a ball winner from Roanmore puckouts. The following year he moved him to centre back, a move which worked very well. So, while the placing of Nolan as sweeper last Sunday has been depicted in the media as a stroke of genius on Davy’s part, it looks much more likely to be that Queally was behind the move. 

Few people appear to have noticed the major change in Waterford’s game plan last Sunday. The crucial elements in this were: working the ball out from the back; the constant search, in all directions, for free team mates; refusal to hit blind long balls; patient recycling of the ball in order to retain possession until good opportunities appeared; and great running by team mates to provide these openings for the player in possession. Some people here have suggested that Waterford were allowed last Sunday to revert to the running game which worked so well under Liam Cahill, but this simply was not the case. The focus last Sunday was to let the ball do the work with slick stick passing which generally worked a treat. Writing in the Irish Times today, Denis Walsh described the increasing centrality of stick passing (not a notable feature of Davy Fitzgerald’s playbook) as an “evolutionary leap” in the development of modern hurling.

Perhaps the most revolutionary element of last Sunday’s game plan related to puckout strategy. Almost unbelievably, of Waterford’s 26 puckouts, no less than 24 were either short or directed, the first long contested puckout not being delivered until the 56th minute. While the bulk of these short/directed puckouts were delivered either to the full backs or Billy Nolan, Shaun O’Brien must also be complimented on his ability to put the ball in the hands of unmarked team mates outside the 45 metre line. While Davy Fitzgerald toyed occasionally with short puckouts in earlier games, he has been heavily reliant on long puckouts, with his notorious repertoire of variations, most of which never seemed to work.

It was also noticeable last Sunday that, for the first time ever (in my memory) Waterford had a definite sideline puck strategy, designed to pass the ball to team mates rather than hit it as far as possible. It didn’t always work out, but it was still a hell of an improvement on what has gone before. Like ground strokes, long puckouts and sidelines are becoming an increasing rarity in modern hurling, and it is hight time for Waterford to catch up.

It is simply beyond belief that Davy suddenly struck upon all these innovations in one sweep, like an overnight conversion. In fact, the kind of hurling Waterford were playing last Sunday looked very like the kind of hurling Peter Queally was trying to nurture when he was in charge of Roanmore, with its emphasis on moving the ball through the lines with slick passing movements. This is the kind of hurling which got them to the county final in 2021 where, sadly, they froze on the day.

So, it looks to me like Peter Queally had the key role in game planning and team preparation for last Sunday’s game. And, while some have attributed Waterford’s improved level of effort and performance to a desire to save some self-respect – or even, heaven help us, to save Davy’s bacon – it seems to me that the team, for once, had a game plan in which they had belief and to which they responded enthusiastically and very effectively.

If the above interpretation is accurated, it raises major questions. What transpired in the camp in the week between the Clare and Tipperary games to bring about this profound change? And if it is true that Peter Queally was the main man in the defeat of Tipperary, where does that leave Davy, whose credibility (already near-zero) has surely been completely obliterated as a result.

The fact is that, under Davy’s management, Waterford had a completely pointless league campaign in which no game plan was discernible and there was no sign of any progress. And in the championship we witnessed two of Waterford’s worst performances in the last 25 years, surpassed only by two abolute hammerings sustained when Davy was last in charge.

The tragedy is that we are lumbered with a county board which lacks the competence and gumption to do what needs to be done. This is the same county board which has overseen a situation where Clare and Offaly are appearing in under-age All-Ireland finals while Waterford can’t win a game at those levels. We are now faced with the prospect of yet another group of exceptionally talented hurlers withering on the vine over the next two years. It is a truly bleak prospect.

while I appreciate the effort put into that post and hard to disagree Waterford were an improvement, to me the biggest and still most relevant factor was Cahill had them severely undercooked. Do people still think that sole victory changes anything for next season ? That Davy suddenly has seen the light and the players can and will stay focused during crucial moments during the Munster championship . Let what needs to be done now from the bottom up happen am not expecting much to change next year , the mistakes on and off the pitch coupled with this round robin Munster championship crap is the worse thing that could have happened for Waterford hurling . That’s not going away anytime soon which makes the task even much to get out of the group of death and progress further in the championship.

Will some big players 'opt out' for 2024 ???

Me thinks it will be a completely different approach to the League next year and Davy will be out to win it all

From what he displayed this year it’s impossible to have any confidence that he could change his ‘approach’………you can dress it up however you be like but those defeats to cork and Clare were as was said above as bad as any since the 2008 final and the 7-19 match v tipp in 2011 ( I think)…….the likelihood of more beatings like these next season remains high…..especially taking into account players who may opt out/go travelling/retire which could include names like Stephen bennett, both Gleesons, Dunford, Foran, C Lyons, prunty….the other Bennetts and de bourka may return which would offset some of those who may or may not ‘opt out’

If anyone in Waterford believed that the victory over Tipperary is the beginning of a new chapter and that Davy Fitz is entitled to a 2nd Year on the back of it is completely misguided here.

Dessie Hutch’s speech after the game that Waterford aren’t good enough to challenge for an All Ireland but are good enough to be competing spoke enough for me. Waterford are good enough to challenge for an All Ireland, does anyone actually believe if Davy was there for another 3 years would he get anywhere near getting to An All Ireland Final. I definetly don’t. The tactics against Tipperary were basically much the same all year only Dessie and Patrick Fitzgerald were left up top. There was still an enormous amount of side passing around the back in the 2nd half nearly getting overturned against a team that was battered already…a goal for Tipp at the right time in the 2nd half and there could have been trouble. Waterford will simply get blown away playing this way against a team that are full of energy because it’s trying to eliminate the fundamentals of what hurling is about.

Tipp will be challenging for an All Ireland this year that I have no doubt but this Waterford team are a better team than Tipperary when their playing to their strengths. The Waterford County Board are duty bound to look at the cold hard facts and realise that Davy Fitzgerald is not going to improve this Waterford team, his post match speeches are a disgrace talking about “abuse” he receives and then digging other managers, if he was in any other professional employment he would have been warned about his conduct and comments and having failed to rectify it would be dismissed.

The other issues going on in Waterford at then minute have already been highlighted, let’s get one thing straight, nobody is going to get Waterford out of the predicament that there in at the minute only good Waterford people that actually care about their county. The termination of Davy Fitzgerald’s contract is the first step in the right direction and unfortunetly that looks unlikely. The clubs in Waterford possibly need to step up and lay down the law to Sean Michael O’Regan and co.

In other news Walsh Park is set to be ready for the club knockout games in August

https://www.wlrfm.com/sport/walsh-park-due-to-reopen-in-august-309881

The hard questions finally being asked

There's fellas in this thread who have no clue about hurling but yet have the biggest opinions.

Giveitafrong has absolutely no idea about the game other than pressing stop start on the vcr and counting possessions while bluey from DLS asks the mammies and dad's for their view.

which hard questions? Are you referring to former co secretary for how many years Timmy O’Keefe chiming in with his tuppence worth? ‘We don’t play enough games that’s why we’re falling behind’ good one Timmy. If only you were in a position of power over the past 20 years while this s**t show was unfolding slowly……

as for our esteemed chairman. I’m absolutely shocked at the level of arrogance shown here to these so called ‘hard questions’

’the genuine supporters went to games’ so there’s no issue to address here then?. Clearly not fit for purpose

we need to see more reports like this to get this shambles out in the public domain

There are so many things wrong across the board it’s untrue. Yes we’ve finally seen some progression in the past couple years with introduction of all county premier intermediate being one. But again a bit like the stadium refurb these are (some of) the changes everyone has been screaming out for the past 25 years. Let’s not trip over ourselves giving them the credit they crave

concerningly it seems to me that our chairman isn’t even acknowledging there are issues when put to him. Continually Swatting away questions with ‘nothing to see here’ type answers. It’s not politics? His position isn’t bigger than Waterford GAA.

Look what Michael Duignan needed to do to enforce change in Offaly when he went in first. No holds barred just called it out as it was that the whole structure was a disaster and had been for 25 years. And that a root and branch review of everything from the ground up was needed. Didn’t care whose feelings he hurt. The dead wood in the board weren’t long clearing off in a sulk. Offaly gaa was bigger than anything in his eyes. That’s the type of leadership we need here

That's an outstanding post. Assumptions and accusations to the highest degree. I don't think I've posted here late at night and I cant remember the last time I walked down the Glen never mind had a drink down there. Probably well over 15 to 20 years. More than likely your adding about 3 people together and coming up with some random lad. An absolutely outstanding post 😂

Losing TDB isn't the reason our forwards couldn't score.

I'm not taking the argument they aren't good enough. We were free scoring 2 years ago under Cahill with many of the same players

Fixtures are up on the website.

glass half full with Mick. Shur who needs proper underage structures when we can hope that a few hidden gems keeep magically appearing out of nowhere every year