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Solar for Beginners [ask your questions here]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Yes, they are all different in physical dimensions. Best off measuring what's already there and pick one to physically match on midsummer, but you should also check that the electrical specs aren't significantly different to what you already have (you will need a model number to check that though!). Also decide whether you want a black or silvered finish (silvered is the one which shows the silver lines between the individual 7cm x 5cm cells). You can go with a larger wattage panel if the voltage specs roughly match, you just won't benefit from the difference.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Ginger83




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭DC999


    Adding to what slave1 said. Do you have a smart meter now? If so, ignore the battery and get paid for the FIT export. ~20c a unit. Then charge the car on a cheap EV night rate.

    Do you have a Zappi now? If so, change that to charge on Eco++ so it only charges during the day when there is a spare 1.4kW or more available. Zappi constantly checks if there is spare excess and throttles up or down immediately. Then also have a nightly schedule to charge during the cheap EV night rate.

    I don’t have a battery. Sure, if the money tree was around I’d have one. But it’s ok without it.  

    Bear in mind once you move to a smart tariff on a smart meter, you can never move to a 24hr one. The peak rate on those is rough, so you’d want to reduce the usage during that time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    I guess it's hard to tell from the pictures.. I've searched for 370 watt ja panels but don't see any in stock locally..




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    A question due to curiosity

    If someone has solar pv with batteries and thought about a wind turbine to supplement winter power can the solar inverter be used? If not can the turbine be used to charge the batteries?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Generally no. While the inverter you have for your solar panels -> battery does a very similar job, there are some differences in a wind turbine.

    A simplified explain (it's a bit more complex) but you can think of a solar inverter as something that "pulls down" what it needs. If the battery is full it will export to the grid, and say if the grid was offline (due to a technical problem) then the inverter has no need to "pull down" anything so it does nothing. A wind turbine on the other hand "pushes out" electricity from the wind turbine into the inverter, and that energy has to go "somewhere", or bad things will happen. usually there is a "dump load" feature on the solar charge controller when the battery is full it will heat a resistor or something.

    One of the regulars here has a wind turbine and has by all accounts been good for him. @samdeluxjones



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭con747


    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Ginger83




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Hmm - could this be it?

    99cm x 196cm - is a slightly unusual size as most of the panels are ~110cm x ~170cm. Any chance you can check those dimensions?

    If it's model "JAM72D00-370/PR" then the voltages at STC (standard test conditions) are:

    • Open Circuit Voltage(Voc) - 48.43V
    • Maximum Power Voltage(Vmp) - 39.7V

    Any of the 350W to 380W panels which I have checked on midsummer are all around the 38v range for Voc and 34v for Vmp. I'm not sure how well you can mix those with higher voltage panels. Maybe it doesn't matter and it won't limit the full array... maybe somebody here knows better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    Would they be listed on your NC6? When I done mine there was a section for them I think



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭con747


    Your best bet is ask your installer to send you on the specs of the ones they fitted. If they are in any way decent that would not be an issue if they don't want to fit one for you.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,741 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Some inverters, like the Deye / Sunsynk, are setup to work with either sun and / or wind input.

    Forget about wind though unless you have a one off house on top of a hill with very clean wind coming from the prevailing wind direction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    I've asked so we see. They bound to have a record of it but they were fitting them so fast who knows



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    They'd have an invoice from their supplier anyway. It's just a matter of making them want to find it. Tell em that you have a friend looking at a solar install and that their level of follow-up here could swing the decision... 😏



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    interesting conversation this morning.. i emailed them and they phoned me back.. they have on record they fitted 350 watt panels on the day but the installer on the day told me they were 370s.. he's away on holidays so they going to figure it out next week.. not surprising the records are a bit hap hazard as they were flying through installs the back end of last year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭10-10-20




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭DC999


    I took a photo of the info on the back of the panel on install day. Was smaller than they quoted!! Only 3% less output (10w less) but they never said it. Usual crap of ‘we can only get what we can get at the moment’. I told him they hadn’t given me 3% more and I deserved to be told of the change from the contract (IE, their written quote). I would of lost 3% efficiency forever for nothing - due to them acting the goat or having crap admin (if they did it without knowing) 

    Anyways, they put another one up FOC after I objected. So that more than made up for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    I'd normally shout "Cowboys Ted", but that wouldn't be appropriate in a forum for DIYers. 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Hi folks,

    If an additional panel is added to a string are there any changes required on the inverter configuration?

    Cheers,

    Mick



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭idc


    Nope, possibly some inverters store the kWp of the system but is usually purely a visual thing, unless it produces reports where it uses that value in calculations - then yes would make sense to update it



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 gg3390


    Thanks Johnathan, good to know. Thanks for your comments. I should therefore be able to pull the modbus feed into HA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 gg3390


    I think I have most of the jigsaw put together in my head now in relation to the (nearly) DIY solar install I'm planning to do (getting a roofer to do the mounting, and a reci to sign off the electrical work when I'm completed).

    I think I've only one question remaining I'm confused about - somebody might set me right. It relates somewhat to a previous question I had on Huawei inverters and their control via modbus (thanks again Johnathan). This relates more to the operation and placement of the DSU666H as specified with Huawei inverters.

    I understand CT measurements and power monitoring (I have a self-built ESP32-based system feeding HA, plus have a Shelly 3phase meter also). Currently I measure the main inbound tails, and the feed to my garage. I will be installing the inverter in the garage (10sq feed to house from there so no capacity issues).

    My question relates to "why" I need to use the DSU666 and associated clamp meter. Given that my proposed inverter (5Kw huawei) will be configured with irish settings, plus is limited to 25A (approx 6kw) output, with the exception of wanting to know the actual solar production levels, do I need to feed the DSU666 from the MAIN inbound tails - I want to install this on the garage tails where the inverter will be feeding the house. My reasoning here, and this is what I'd be interested in any comments on, is that I will have no battery, the inverter will be naturally limited by its max output, and therefore self-use will firstly absorb production, with any remaining current flowing outbound to the grid. So why would I need to measure the main tails coming into the house in this scenario?

    Reasoning here initially was that I'd need to install the CT clamps and DSU666 in the main house consumer unit, but the inverter is in the garage. I have no spare CAT5 between these locations - there are 3 but used for both ethernet and other purposes, so cannot pull one for the CT clamp. However, I can use a modbus to ethernet transceiver and carry the signalling from the DSU666 to the inverter over ethernet, so it's not insurmountable.

    Basically, I just need to try understand why I would need to. Hope this makes sense, and thanks again for filling in all the blanks that I already got advise on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Had our first rain for nearly a month here. The inverter RCD tripped in the consumer board. Tried on again and tripped after 30 seconds..left all alone for about 20 minutes and tried again and it stayed on fine. Givenergy support reckon might be water ingress somewhere? Panels in since October so had lots of rain on them before.. will keep eye on it


    Cheers,

    Mick



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,741 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Doesn't sound right. Inverters have a really good IP rating, shouldn't be a problem in any weather even if mounted outdoors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Would a dodgy panel connection if it got wet cause it to trip?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭10-10-20



    I'd reckon Givenergy are right. Any RCD trips which I have had on general electrical circuits have been after rain showers where water has penetrated cables or covers. They often follow that signature of disappearing for a duration and then coming back again. I presume your inverter is indoors though, is it not?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭10-10-20



    Thinking about an RCD trip on a solar circuit - RCD's operate off the principal of the AC current on the live being equal to the current on the neutral. When all is equal, there is no trip. When there is a delta between live and neutral which is above the RCD trigger current (usually 30mA), it trips. That's usually a scenario where >30mA of current passes into an earth cable, an earthed component or even an earthed body.

    When you then try to apply that to solar it gets tricky as the DC is fully isolated from the AC side of the circuit. So in theory the loss of DC current (even greater than 30mA) isn't going to be seen by the RCD as it has no knowledge of the differential on the isolated DC circuit - hence no trip.

    So troubleshooting this could be eh 'interesting' unless you have an external inverter or external AC cabling - at which point it gets a little simpler.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Yep inverter indoors and no moisture there...system has run since November no issues.. running fine all evening..I may have to wait a while for more rain to test.. inverter was still running from battery after rcd tripped



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    What else is on the same RCD circuit? Any outdoor circuits?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    As the inverter? The only this is the EPS socket. That does run outside the house in a conduit and back in.. i don't think that's the issue though as it's pretty well done. It has it's own rcb between the inverter and the EPS socket and it didn't trip.. all sort of points to something on the roof getting wet that shouldn't..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭con747


    How long since install? October yeah? Get the installer to figure it out. Let them put your extra panel up when their up there as well!

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Pesonally I wouldn't worry too much about it. Reset it. See how long it stays. You could be chasing a phantom once off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    I'd agree with this. I'd leave it and see if you can confirm that it's specifically rain related as opposed to moisture. I had an outdoor socket which used to trip constantly about 2 days after rain. When I eventually took it apart I found that the bottom of it had filled with rain due to a faulty seal but it was't the pool of water which was the cause - it was the later condensation of that rain within the socket which was the tripping point once the condensation bridged the L and E up higher.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    I had some tripping problems from time to time when the weather got like that last year.

    Changed the breaker to one with more than 30mA leakage protection, 100mA I think I fitted. Hasn't tripped since then.

    That might be in the manual somewhere if it's okay to do this.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    That is 30mA. That's what was causing the issue for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    What's it supposed to be? Is there a risk fitting a higher one?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    I think I'll use it as a reason for the installer to come out check the panels connections and hopefully throw up that extra panel. The one slight concern I have is that they might kick up about me having the EPS socket wired by a third party electrician. They refused to do it but the givenergy tech guy who swapped over my gen 1 to gen 2 inverter said I could do it myself (I didn't I got an electrian to do it as per givenergy instructions)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    It depends on the inverter but it would be worth downloading the install manual for your inverter and see if it is in there somewhere. It was in the about 60 page manual for mine.

    If you go into an electrical wholesaler to buy a standard one I think this will be 30mA as the normal standard.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Just so people are aware where the 30mA comes from. This is typically regarded as the current which is enough to kill someone. (Yeah, I was shocked too many years ago when I found this out that it was so low) Course it's not just current, you need the voltage to break the skin layer and that voltage usually this is about 50-60v AC. It does vary a little from location on the body with areas of thicker skin requiring higher voltages to break down the skin etc. The body itself is a decent enough conductor but it's the skin which insulates us (to a point). Worse if the current is flowing across the body (arm-to-arm) rather than down it.

    So going with a breaker with higher than 30mA might solve your tripping problem, but you could be compromising the very reason why the device was installed to begin with. So I'd advice caution there. I'm not a spark (only someone with an interest in these things) but in my experience, sometimes they trip with no real discernable reason. I had a circuit trip when I was on holidays once came back to find all the fish dead in my tank. Could be many reasons. Some wierd like storrms having charged atmostphere (I know sounds crazy)

    Maybe you need one of these puppies.

    (692) Inside a fake un-trippable circuit breaker. - YouTube

    LOL - love that video. (and it's a great education on how these things work)



  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭elgicko


    Yeah, I'm sure the installer would love to put the scaffolding back up, to put up another panel for free. Sure while they are up there, get them to clean the roof, solar panels and gutters!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭con747


    If the fault is on the roof they will have no choice, it was only installed 8 months ago so it would be well within reason to expect them to fix the issue if it is a fault. Also if it turns out the installer charged for a higher rated panel than they installed then I would expect them to put an extra panel up to make up the shortfall in generation. So I'm not quite sure what your point is.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    True - but I think the best course is to rationally look at the history. It's tripped at one time in 8 months, and at that it tripped twice and then (I assume) has been stable since. For now I'd chalk it down to "ghosts in the machine" and move on.

    Sure, 100% if it starts to trip again you have a problem there that you might/should investigate, but to start digging through the wiring for something that might simply be a spurious one time event which could even be caused by the breaker being faulty (it happens) its perhaps knee jerking too much.

    Still each to their own, but I wouldn't be doing anything for that......for now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    I'm not looking for freebies but a) they need to actually verify what panels they installed and b) givenergy support have advised they should check the connections for water ingress. If they will fit the extra panel I'm happy to pay for it..of course if they ask a large amount I'll probably leave it. They didn't use scaffolding during the install



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭con747


    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭micks_address


    a sprinkling of rain this morning and no trip so maybe it was a once off.. who knows when we will have proper rain again



  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭elgicko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 238 ✭✭AmpMan


    Hi guys,

    What is 8.Back up terminal used for on this inverter (hypontech hybrid)

    Thanks


    Edit- Is it an AC output for when the power is down ? No description in the manual btw

    Post edited by AmpMan on


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