World 23 - Players 25 or Younger

12-06-2023 10:44am #1

Out of curiosity and boredom I decided to attempt to select a global selection of players, aged 25 or younger. Thought it would be an interesting insight into which countries have a lot of young talent. I had a trawl through international squads and club sides to compile a long list, then culled that into a 23.

It was interesting to note the absolute paucity of tight five forwards eligible for selection - I've gone with an uncapped guy at THP, and Tom O'Toole wasn't far down the list. Not exactly a wealth of options in the second row too, reflecting the fact tight five forwards mature a little older.

The one position group with mountains of depth is back row - I've left out some excellent players there.

Other interesting point to note - whatever happened in 1996, there are a glut of guys who are 26 years old who would be in this squad, all world class players, but just overage. In that age group alone you've got Antoine Dupont, James Ryan, Hugo Keenan, Rieko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, Kurt Lee Arendse, Mark Telea, Damian Penaud, Gregory Aldritt, Thibaud Flament, Peato Mauvaka, plus more.

My 23 has the following nationality breakdown: SA 4 players (plus one uncapped), Australia 4 players, NZ 4 players, Ireland 3 players, England 3 players, France 1 (plus one uncapped), plus one each from Argentina and Italy.

My 23:

15-9, 1-8: Will Jordan, Mark Nawaqanitawase, Len Ikitau, Damian Willemse, Freddie Steward, Romain Ntamack, Tate McDermott, Ethan de Groot, Dan Sheehan, Asenathi Ntlabakanye, Niccolo Cannone, Emmanuel Meafou, Marcos Kremer, Tom Curry, Caelan Doris.

Reps: Samisoni Taukei'aho, Ntuthuko Mchunu, Fletcher Newell, Ryan Baird, Fraser McReight, Jaden Hendrikse, Marcus Smith, Canan Moodie.

Average caps is 22 for the first XV, 18 for the squad overall. Most capped is Marcos Kremer (55 caps).

On the list but unluckily missing out IMO: Danilo Fischetti, Ronan Kelleher, Nick Frost, Rob Valetini, Dalton Papali'i, Michele Lamaro, Lorenzo Cannone, Manie Libbok, Matthieu Jalibert, Leicester Fainga'anuku, Caleb Clarke, Louis Rees-Zammit, Mack Hansen, Melvyn Jaminet, Jordan Petaia, Ange Capuozzo.

Anybody else see it differently?

realhorrorshow · 12-06-2023 11:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058300504/world-23-players-25-or-younger

Will have to put some more time in to make a team but initial thoughts:

Tom O'Toole is miles ahead of Ntlabakanye surely. 6 nations experience vs decent to good URC player. I do really like Ntlabakanye, and think he could be an international if he lost 15-20 kg. As is, he does quite well to not be a liability in defence in the URC, but would surely be ruthlessly exposed at the top level of international rugby.
Garbisi ahead of Libbok by a country mile IMO, although neither would displace the two 10s you've gone for.
Would swap Steward and Jordan.
Would consider Casey over Hendrikse. More objectively, would probably have to look at van Poortvliet as he is an international starter, but personally don't rate him that much.
Capuozzo's kicking game (or complete lack thereof) keeps him out of the team. Honourable mention to Davit Niniashvilli who I'm pretty confident will be a top class internation, perhaps breaking out at this world cup.
Chessum should definitely be in there, one of England's best players in the 6N.

12-06-2023 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704642#Comment_120704642

Yeah, some fair calls maybe. Paolo Garbisi was absolutely on my long-list, I just neglected to mention him in the post.

I find it hard to rank the THPs - I initially had Fletcher Newell in the starting team, but plumped for Ntlabakanye on the basis that I've been really impressed by him virtually every time I've seen him play. I really like Tom O'Toole, but still found it hard to believe he warranted inclusion here. Another season like he's just had (internationally - he's been middling at best domestically IMO), and maybe he would be viewed differently.

Most interesting for me was just how much young talent Australia had eligible for this: (Angus Bell, Nick Frost, Fraser McReight, Rob Valetini, Harry Wilson, Tate McDermott, Max Jorgensen, Carter Gordon, Len Ikitau, Jordan Petaia, Mark Nawaqanitawase all on my long list, with several in the side. Coupled with Eddie Jones in the box and a soft draw, I think they're absolutely legitimate contenders for the RWC.

realhorrorshow · 12-06-2023 11:47am

Ok have thrown together a team, although probably haven't put as much thought in as you did in the OP. I have placed a premium on international experience, and also thrown in a few curveballs, more as a conversation starter than necessarily disagreeing with your selections.

15-9, 1-8: Freddie Steward, Will Jordan, Ollie Lawrence, Vilimoni Botitu, Ethan Dumortier, Romain Ntamack, Ben White, Thomas Gallo, Dan Sheehan, Joe Heyes, Ollie Chessum, Emmanuel Meafou, Caelan Doris, Juan Martin Gonzalez, Rob Valentini.

Reps: Samisoni Taukei'aho, Ethan DeGroot, Aleksandre Kuntelia, Ryan Baird, Dalton Papali'i, Folau Fakatava, Damian Willemse, Yoram Moefana.

sydthebeat · 12-06-2023 11:52am

the best prospect for THPs at that young age is Tamatai Williams, 22 years old, 134 kg, already has 11 starts for crusaders at 3 and 4 starts at 1. it will be interesting to see who claims that 3 shirt long term for the crusaders between him, Newell and Jager.

Hunter Paisami is only 25, and definitely worth a mention at 12 and id have him in there ahead of williamse if you want to play a certain style. i dont like williamse at 12 as he has less time to scan. id put Willamse at 15, move jordan to the wing and ditch Steward who just happens to be a large rugby back who can run kinda fast. Steward doesn't have the core skills to mark him as one of the worlds best threes currently.

santi carreras is also certainly worth a mention. its a pity whats happened to the jaguares which means that argentinian test players are diluted into various leagues across the world which kinda puts them 'out of sight, out of mind'. it will be interesting to see how this years RC goes, especially after a successful RC for the pumas last year. Juan Cruz mallia for toulouse is also another worth a mention.

realhorrorshow · 12-06-2023 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704801#Comment_120704801

Carreras is good but a lot of Irish fans' opinions of him will be coloured by the Leinster game this season, in which he was absolutely dreadful. Cruz Mallia is 26 but an excellent player who I'm looking forward to seeing at the World Cup.

Matteo Carreras would get a lot more hype if he played for a bigger team, such an entertaining player to watch.

sydthebeat · 12-06-2023 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704825#Comment_120704825

oops on mallia.

yeah carreras was crap against leinster at home, im not entirely convinced by him at 10 at all, hes a much better back 3 player.

agreed on M Carreras.

also, on current form Leicester Fainga'anuku and harry wilson would also be big shouts for a starting spot.

12-06-2023 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704966#Comment_120704966

Yeah, I've really enjoyed watching Harry Wilson this season. A back row of Valetini at 6, McReight and Wilson as a long term back row for Australia sounds pretty good to me. All three under 25.

Neil3030 · 12-06-2023 4:33pm

Outstanding choice at tighthead.

He got a standing ovation coming off the field in Musgrave Park.

How he puts 60+ mins at his size is physics-defying.

12-06-2023 5:53pm

Out of curiosity, I picked a selection based on players aged 32 or older, and likely to go to this year's RWC.

Actually found it harder than I expected, team as follows:

15-9, 1-8: Beauden Barrett, Israel Folau, Manu Tuilagi (? debatable at best if going to RWC), Bundee Aki, Makazole Mapimpi, Jonathan Sexton, Aaron Smith, James Slipper, Bongi Mbonambi, Uini Atonio, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Bernard le Roux, Peter O'Mahony, Taulepe Faletau.

Reps: Jamie George, Mako Vunipola, Frans Malherbe, Franco Mostert, Deon Fourie, Conor Murray, Dan Biggar, Jonny May.

Missed out: Brice Dulin (unlikely to be picked), Willie le Roux, Leigh Halfpenny, Keith Earls, Ben Youngs, Tomas Cubelli, Nic White, Richie Gray, Courtney Lawes, WP Nel, Vincent Koch, Cian Healy, Rob Herring, Ken Owens.

Possibly someone else I'm missing out there.

Who wins in a game between this 32 or older selection and the above selected U25 group? Hard to overlook the power and dynamism of the U25 group, but this is a pretty savvy team and would be extremely solid at set piece.

stephen_n · 12-06-2023 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120706415#Comment_120706415

I’d say the 32 year old team on nouse and also strength.

RichieRich_89 · 12-06-2023 8:36pm

I'm curious what an Ireland U25 selection would look like, but I'm too lazy to check all their ages.

Something like the following, maybe?

Milne
Sheehan
O'Toole
McCarthy
Baird
Prendergast
Penny
Doris
Casey
Crowley
Hansen
Osborne
Hume
Mullins?
Moore
Kelleher
Wycherley
Aungier
Murray
Hodnett
Doak
H. Byrne
Lowry

I prefer Stewart Moore as a fullback to Lowry.

realhorrorshow · 12-06-2023 8:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120706966#Comment_120706966

Calvin Nash on the right wing? Maybe Forde at 12 and Osborne at 13, Hume's form has fallen off a cliff this season.

realhorrorshow · 12-06-2023 8:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120706415#Comment_120706415

If you threw the teams together with a week or two to prepare I think the O32 team would win, as the experience would surely help quickly putting together lineout calls etc.

RichieRich_89 · 12-06-2023 8:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120707012#Comment_120707012

He's 25.

Or we going for 25 and under?

RichieRich_89 · 12-06-2023 8:58pm

Oh. Yeah. Thread title...

realhorrorshow · 12-06-2023 8:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120707079#Comment_120707079

Well the original post was 25 and younger but you can do whatever you like!

World 23 - Players 25 or Younger

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