DCM 2023 Mentored Novices Thread

MiniMonstera · 12-06-2023 1:26pm

Oh yes to add to my stress a Tesla* zoomed by me at close proximity and at such a speed that I lost my footing and almost fell into the briars. On- road can be so overwhelming.

(* no offence meant to non idiot Tesla drivers)😁

MisterJinx · 12-06-2023 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704933#Comment_120704933

I know how you feel, June is just crazy with the amount of activities and tours and bakes sales and everything else, only a few more weeks to go.....!

Well done on the mileage and getting a few very long run on-boards. I think it's a good idea that you taper it down for the 5mile, you've probably jumped up quite a bit there in distance and effort over the last couple of weeks so you do need to give your body time to recover. No point in going hell for leather now when we've got quite a journey to go yet.....

I feel you as well on the humidity over the weekend, I went out too and only brought a small amount of water with me, I had to take several walk breaks just to keep myself cool, it was hard running in that weather, lessons for all of us :-)

Kellygirl · 12-06-2023 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704933#Comment_120704933

Well done in the highest mileage week. One thing I love about marathon training is the achievements the whole way through training, longest runs, longest time on your feet, high mileage weeks etc. as your long runs get longer maybe consider taking electrolytes a couple of days beforehand too in the Summer. I would normally add 2 zero tablets to my water per day for 2 - 3 days before my long runs.

Runner2023 · 14-06-2023 2:08pm

Hi guys

Thanks for all the effort that goes into this. Looking forward to getting stuck in. Quick q - Is there a way to change the boards google doc to KM?

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? No. Recent 5k PB is 23:03 in January. I ran a 20 minute 5k many moons ago.
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No
How much training do you currently do ? Very, very little at the minute! I had been clocking up 25/30km weeks in January and February but for a variety of reasons this has dropped off completely. I'm intrigued to see how the body reacts to the plan.
What do you want to achieve? Goal 1: finish in one piece. Goal 2: Finish under 4 hours. Goal 3: Sub 3:50.
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? 7 - intend to use the Boards plan
What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? Injury before / during the main event
Why are you running this marathon? Have always enjoyed watching friends compete

AlmightyCushion · 14-06-2023 2:54pm

Isn't the boards plan all time based instead of distance? E.g. 60 minutes at easy pace so no real mention of km or miles.

MisterJinx · 15-06-2023 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714212#Comment_120714212

Hi Runner2023, you're very welcome to the thread and the plan. This is all about returning the favour which gets passed down each year and hopefully will continue for a long time to come :-) thanks for the info you have provided. For the a km version, I have something which I just need to tidy up and will post it as soon as i get a chance.

MisterJinx · 15-06-2023 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714412#Comment_120714412

Hi, I think you are referring to the Boards Graduates plan which is time based. The Novices plan is distance based.

TheRef · 15-06-2023 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695493#Comment_120695493

Hi @Louis 2018 . I see you are still undecided on what plan you will follow.

I was part of last years novice group, and only took up running in the last days of November 2021, so had just 7 months solid running behind me when I started the training plan for the DCM22. I was somewhat fit I guess I also referee soccer, so it wasn't quite couch to 5k when I started.

A couple of things from my experience that might help you...

I strongly endorse the Boards plan. It was difficult at times, and had a bunch more running that HH1, but I went with it because there are so many people in this forum who used it. Everyone seemed positive about it, and much more importantly, any question you are likely to have about the plan, you will have a load of people who can share their experience.

Now, I did make some adjustments to my plan as I continued to referee for a long period of the training block. The mentors advised against it (rightly so), but I continued because I really enjoyed it. On three of the longest runs, I actually ran a very long uphill in the first half from where I live in Kildare to the just inside Wicklow. It was probably an hour of a solid climb. Of course, I needed to really dial back the pace on the way up, but looking back, I think that really helped me when I was dredging up Crumlin Road and through Clonskeagh. I actually felt pretty strong running up Roebuck as well which really surprised me at the time. I attribute that strength to the hills I ran slowly.

I also had some initial concerns about the lack of speed work, wondering how will I ever get faster, not realising that its the long slow steady runs that provide the most benefit for the marathon. This week I am just coming off a 12 week half marathon plan which had a bunch of speed work in it (i.e. running quite a bit faster than race pace). I think if I incorporated that type of speedwork into any marathon plan on my first attempt I wouldn't have had the success I did, and almost certainly would have injured myself along the way. I think that the enormous strains marathon training puts on anyone running their first marathon, now is not the time to try and run faster. Now is the time to run longer and longer and longer and to give your body a chance to recover and build itself back in time for your next run. You'll get faster a long the way, but the objective is to get to that start line.

BTW: my goal was to finish DCM in under 4 hours. I finished in 4:11 and I knew at about the 30k mark that 4 hours was out of reach. I felt strong up until the last 4k where a terrible stitch caused me real bother. I often heard that a marathon is a run of two halves - the first 20 miles and then the last 6.

One of last years mentors said to the group for us to make sure we enjoy it as much as possible. I loved being out there and to me, that was much more important than the finish time.

ariana` · 15-06-2023 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717321#Comment_120717321

This, from a recent graduation, hits on a lot of great points and really worth reading for all novices.

MisterJinx · 15-06-2023 2:05pm

@Runner2023 - here is a km version

MisterJinx · 15-06-2023 8:39pm

So the count down is really on now! Pretty much 10 days until the official start of the plan !

So how are you all getting on with the base phase? Have you started to get yourself up to the 20 miles per week? How has this stage been going for you? Let us know in the comments below, we really want to hear your stories and what you've been up to over the last couple of weeks and how you are feeling now as you are about to start on this journey. This is about a shared journey so get involved and tell us what's going on and any questions you have.

Crunchy23 · 15-06-2023 10:18pm

Hi all,

I secured my spot in DCM 2023, which will be my first marathon. This board was recomemded by a work colleague.

I have done a fair bit of running over the past 4 or 5 years but it has always been running on my own and the training plan was just brute force and ignorance. I would run through the summer getting to the point where I could do a couple of 5km, a 10km and maybe a 15km a week. I would repeat that for a couple of months just trying to run as hard and as fast as I could. I was blessed I didn't pick up any injuries. I would then go on holiday, fall out of my routine and just not pick up again when I got home. Then, come the next summer I would be even more unfit and heavier than the previous year.

I'm now in my late 20's and would like to try keep the running up and stay in more of a routine year round, as much as reasonably possible. I am a little bit behind where I usually would be this year as I had shoulder surgery in April.

• Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

I had done a couple of races with the work sport society but nothing competitive until this year. I have conoleted the Irish runner 5km (21:35) back in May and the Irish runner 5m (36:00) on Sunday. My 5km PB is 19:05, my 10km pb is 42:59 and my half marathon PB is 1:38:56. Those PBs were just me running on my own.

• Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)

No.

• How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Currently I am running 4 to 6 times a week. I am back up to running at least one 15km a week. I would be covering between 25 and 30km a week at the moment. I got a Garmi watch 2 weeks ago. I love it but i have used the daily suggested workouts since I got it and i dont think I'm the biggest fan.

I havent done any cross training with recovering from the operation, but this is something I would like to add over the coming weeks if I can.

• What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

The absolute dream.would be 3:30. I know this is very ambitious for a first timer though. I would be delighted with breaking 4hr.

• How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

I can train 4 - 6 days a week. I have signed uo for the Irish runner 10m, the fingal 10km and the DC half marathon. I have a wedding in Portugal in September though, and arrive home 3 days before the half marathon. I'll be doing a bit of running in the sun! I do like to push myself so I'm going to go with the boards plan.

• What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?

I would say injury would be the biggest fear. We are also expecting our first baby in November so I would be afraid of the plan falling apart at the end, but hopefully not.

• Why are you running this marathon?

It has always been a bucket list item. I am very competative and donlove to push myself so i see this as a great challenge.

Sorry for the life story 😂. I'm looking forward to starting tge plan now. Best of luck to everyone. And thanks in advance to the whole team for the help and motivation.

Louis 2018 · 16-06-2023 4:15pm

Hi, so far so good MisterJinx, running 25km-30km per week at the moment with some other light activities thrown in for good measure. Looking forward to starting the plan (boards) and taking it from there while juggling family life!. I have some additional questions for the group if ye don't mind?

On the boards plan for example week 17 states "1m w/u, 3m pace, 1m c/d" - I guess this translates to 1 mile warm=up, 3miles at marathon pace and 1 mile cool down??
Regarding "easy" and lsr (long slow run) on the programme, is there a general thought on how slower each of these should be in comparison to your marathon pace e.g. how many seconds per km slower should each of these be?

Thanks for the support as always :)

Louis 2018 · 16-06-2023 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717432#Comment_120717432

A really good read for sure

Louis 2018 · 16-06-2023 4:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717321#Comment_120717321

Hi TheRef

Thanks so much for your response, wow well done on your time for DCM last year. Your comments re speed/hill work are very interesting and seems to be the general (wise) consensus online too for first time marathon runners.

A lot of food for thought in your comments, thank you :)

MisterJinx · 16-06-2023 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723126#Comment_120723126

Hi Louis,

Great choice on the plan, you won't be disappointed, it's tried and tested :-)

On your 2 questions

Yes you have it in one, Warm Up & Cool Down - it's usually a mile or about 10 to 15 minutes of very easy running for the WU and CD and then it's the 3 miles at marathon pace
I work in km and I aim to be at a minimum of 1 minute per km slower than marathon pace. Anything in the range to 60 to 90 second slower is where you should be aiming for.

Louis 2018 · 16-06-2023 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723590#Comment_120723590

Thanks MisterJinx I work in km also, would you be usually 1 min per km slower on both easy and long run or slightly slower than 1 min on long run. Would appear to be an extremely slow pace and very difficult to execute I think. Like if marathon pace was 5:50 min/km for arguments sake running min per km is very slow. Did you struggle with this in your training last year?

Laineyfrecks · 17-06-2023 3:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724971#Comment_120724971

Hi Louis 2018, just popping on to let you know my experience of this. I was mentored in 2019 & ran my 1st DCM very happily. I struggled a fair bit at the start with the idea of running slow, like really slow but believe me it works & has huge benefits. I also did the boards plan & loved it, it has gotten people over the line year after year after year.When running slower my one point would be that you need to forget about the way you have always ran previously to an extent & reset the mind to realise that this is going to hugely benefit you in reaching your target, change takes time but you'll get there😊

Very best of luck with the plan, you never get to run your 1st marathon again, super excited for you🤗

MisterJinx · 17-06-2023 5:27pm

Hi Louis, I pretty much always ran at least 1 min slower than marathon pace in my easy runs and a little slower than than on my long runs. I never really looked at pace as its not really relevant to those runs in that it should be a really low effort pace, that's how you get the aerobic benefit needed to run a marathon.

I would also regularly run with my wife at nearly 2 mins slower than marathon pace, we chat away and it doesn't feel unnatural at all at this stage.

As lainey says its a mindset thing, long slow running is what makes a good marathoner.

You'll get the hang of it, don't worry, its a bit of a skill, but we're here to guide you through it 😀

Seifer · 18-06-2023 7:43pm

Ran the Corkagh 5 Mile this morning (my first official race 😝).

Had planned to go out at 4:30 min/km pace and see how it went. My splits were kind of all over the place; mainly due to the elevation changes of the course, so there's a lesson in there on having a look at that before a race.

Got around in 36:33 (4:33 min/km) so happy enough with that considering the heat. Had said I didn't want to go too hard as it was only a warm-up race and didn't want to pick up an injury but as I was coming up the home straight someone shouted "Come on, Johnno, you have him" and I started to hear rapidly approaching foot steps. So I broke into a full on sprint and Johnno did not in fact have me 😁 Lesson in there in making sure you're fully warmed up for all paces as the competitive element definitely makes a difference!

Kellygirl · 19-06-2023 8:48am

Entries for sale now on the Dublin Marathon website this morning.

Lumen · 19-06-2023 9:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120732869#Comment_120732869

Thanks so much for posting this! I'M IN!!!!!

Hernia surgery is scheduled for mid-July so careful training is going to start in August.

I will have questions 😀

edit: surgeon's office just called and brought it forward two weeks! The gods are smiling today!

MisterJinx · 19-06-2023 9:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120720273#Comment_120720273

Hi Crunchy23,

I missed your post due to being on the phone. Welcome and thank for the detail in your post. Your friend recommended the right place for you! I will come back to you but the only thing I noticed was that I didn't see which plan you were intending to take up, please let us know.

MisterJinx · 19-06-2023 10:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120731385#Comment_120731385

Great Seifer :-) Very well done. the race experience will certainly stand to you. Considering your target and the heat on the day and having to manage the hills then you have come very close to what you expected to get, that is a great success.

witnessmenow · 19-06-2023 11:19am

I booked my ticket this morning, thanks for the heads up @Kellygirl

I've a lot of work to do between then and now though!

Crunchy23 · 19-06-2023 8:43pm

@MisterJinx that's no problem. I would like to push myself to do the boards plan.

MisterJinx · 20-06-2023 1:58pm

As there has been quite a lot of discussion around the easy pace, and it is one of the harder elements for Novices to get their heads around now is probably a good time to start looking at what easy pace means for you for the marathon plan.

It's totally normal and expected at the start of this journey you're on to raise questions and have doubts about the idea of slowing right down. It happens every year, and eventually clicks, usually by the time you start seeing the results, and the leaps in your fitness.

The reason is really simple. In order to run a marathon you need to maximise your aerobic ability and fitness. Aerobic fitness and improvement in it is what drives gains and the marathon is an Aerobic event. You build your Aerobic engine by working most of the time (between 80% and 90%) in your Aerobic Zone which is EASY. We need to put a massive amount of aerobic work in between now and the big day to maximise your potential.

Running at this effort level, while it's reaping you such amazing fitness benefits, it has minimal impact on the body and requires pretty much no recovery other than after very long runs. Effort wise it's a 3 or a 4 out of 10 - you should be able to comfortably breathe and hold a conversation for this type of run. Don't worry if it feels too slow. It should. As your aerobic fitness improves, so will your pace at that effort level.

We use easy pace for the Novices plan as it's a metric everyone with a watch can see and monitor and with the below tool you can get your easy pace (as you progress in your running you start to get a better feel for effort and rely on pace less but it's a great starting point and very useful for your training).

What you need to do is pop in your last race (or time trial) result into the calculator and this will give your easy pace. Don't put in your PB unless it was very recent, you work off your current fitness level.

https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/hmmcalculator/race_equivalency_calculator.php

We've also set up a Strava group for the Novice. You can join this group, it's private, and from there myself and Kellygirl and Skyblue46 will be able to see your training. You don't need to join of course but if you want to you are very welcome and it allows us to give you feedback on what we see.

Click the link below to join however you will need to PM me with your real name in order to be accepted into the group as it's kept private and for the Novices only. We will only let in people who have come to us first.

https://strava.app.link/pGObfMgHLAb

Edited to call out: There are some equivalent race times in the calculator above. I would be very careful with these as it assumes a lot of factors and wouldn't be a good representation for a first time marathoner. These calculators all assume that you have been running for a long period of time with a very solid base of fitness and have run several races including marathons. I was quite a bit outside predicted time based off my race time last year (like anything from 20 to 40 minutes!!). You'll get a better feel once your a few weeks into the training and have some recent races under your belt

MisterJinx · 20-06-2023 2:34pm

Here is a short video on easy pace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JGwZ051fps&t=21s

Lumen · 20-06-2023 3:16pm

Easy paced running has been a complete revelation to me this year. It's so fun, and like a weird kind of rocket fuel for the PBs 😀

That Luke Humphrey running calculator gave me bang on what my self-selected easy pace is, which I arrived at from roughly max HR - age, basically 135-140bpm.

It's initially a bit crushing seeing people you know doing runs on Strava minutes per km faster, but I just have to tell myself that they have different goals or more talent 😀

Where I live is so hilly I was having to walk the hills to keep the HR down, so I moved my runs to a flat trail instead. I found off road was way easier to do easy runs on because I'd naturally shorten my stride to dodge stones and dogsh!t, but now I can maintain 180spm at 6:30/km no problem even on clean tarmac, and my legs love me for it.

Clareview · 20-06-2023 3:37pm

Hey all, I have my ticket for DCM23 and going to follow the Boards plan, hopefully right through to race day.

I'm definitely behind as things stand as Im only back running with some consistency the last 6 weeks really and could do with getting my weight down over next 6 - and km's going up so thats a worry for sure but we will see how things go! Mainly weights in the gym & some spin bike sessions before that to keep me ticking over.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? DCM 2019: 4.46, Dublin Half Marathon 2022: 2.08 (prob off 5 weeks training), Dublin Half Marathon 2019: 2.04, Terenure 5mile 2023: 43min, recent 5KM solo run: 25.05.
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No. not up to 12km anyway..
How much training do you currently do? Prob doing 6 days now between running x 3/4 (running about 25k each week), spin class and weights. Try to get in the 10k walking steps on days when not running as dont get much movement in work!
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time: 3.59 and realistic finishing time: 4.30
How many days a week can you train? 5/6 And what plan do you intend to follow? Boards
What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? Injuries / weight / full commitment
Why are you running this marathon? Didn't do myself justice in my first one, had bombed at 23/24km and struggled to the finish line from there.. not a great place to be! pace wasn't too quick or anything so not really sure why but going try be better in a lot areas this time around (nutrition, sleep, easier runs, more kms per week etc).

Think that is it all anyway. Cheers

DCM 2023 Mentored Novices Thread

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