French Open 2023

Agreed. Just got a warning, but has been a few seconds over on nearly every serve. Crowd applauded decision.

Djokovic is the undisputed goat now. Nadal looks finished so he could add a few more. Minimum 25 with the possibility of more depending on how his body holds up.

It's the only unbiased measure really. The only mitigating factor would be if someone retired young. But no one who retired early is in the picture for GOAT. What measure would you use?

At least 3 slams on all surfaces. He's shown he's an all rounder and as you say, his record against his main rivals is excellent. I think the argument is done.

Djokovic now has the most grand slams, 3 of each grand slam, more ATP Finals wins, more ATP masters wins, more weeks at number 1 , Davis Cup win and a better head to head record against his 2 main rivals.

All he's missing is an Olympic gold medal.

Hard to make an argument against him being the greatest now and I'd imagine he'll probably get past 25 majors by the time he is done and probably pass Federer for number of overall tournaments won aswell by the time he's retired aswell.

He has had a number of advantages that skew his slam count in my opinion.

1/ Homogenisation and slowing of court surfaces

2/ String and racket technology

3/ Slowing of the tennis ball

All of the above have handed the advantage to base line returners and away from attacking players.

There isnt that much difference in the court speeds for the last 15 years.

When Agassi completed the Grand Slam in 99, he was the first to do it on 3 different surfaces, there was a huge difference in the court speeds then and before.

I dont think you can compare across the eras due to all these factors.

Djokivic like so many of the other greats has a great temperament and desire to win.

Federer technically a better player especially on a faster surface but his temperament isn't as good.

I had to laugh at this complete drivel from the Eurosport gang, I wonder what drugs they are on.

The oldest ever winner of the French Open at 36 is hitting the ball harder than ever and moving better than ever, lol

Slower courts did not suit Federer, Nadal yes but not Federer.

I love this time of year on Boards after a Djokovic victory when the copium is in full flow. Unfortunately there aren't any prizes awarded for aesthetics, so greatness is measured by wins/titles/weeks at number 1.

10 years ago, Federer supporters were quite happy to quote GS titles/weeks at number one/titles on a variety of surfaces as evidence of his greatness. However, now that they have been surpassed, in part by Nadal and completely by Djokovic, many are still in denial, falling back on the intangible aesthetics/technique justification or using the "courts/racquet technology didn't suit him" excuses. Reminds me of Larry Gogan :)

I'd still prefer to watch highlights of Federer on Youtube doing Federer stuff over any other player (apart from maybe Kyrgios). But there comes a time when you have to accept that the mantle has been passed.

Federer should have adjusted better to the changes, he refused to change the size of his racquet head for years when if he'd been more sensible he could have used a bigger racquet head and helped his game.He'll also look back and think he took too long to get his first major win, Djokovic and Nadal won their first majors by the time they were 20 , Federer probably missed out on majors in the early part of the 2000's which were won by some average enough players .

He's also by far the weakest mentally of the 3 of them and that has cost him big time over the years .

A player depending on serve and volley would be a very limited player. You're doing a disservice to Federer. He was an amazing, skillful player. Great to watch. He's third on the list of the GOATs though. That's the reality. Djokovic is the undisputed GOAT.

Yeah it does.

Most Grand Slams.

Better H2H v Nadal and Federer

Most Masters 1000

Most WTF finals (Nadal has 0 v Djokovic 6)

Most weeks as no. 1.

He is the GOAT, and if it weren't for the covidians he could have 26 slams right now.

It's not a debate anymore, Novak Djokovic is the greatest player to have ever played the game.

Just on Fed’s fragility. He could be rock solid against Nadal and Nole, and then very flimsy against them.

Just look to Aus final 2017. In my view Fed’s greatest ever match victory.. serious display of mental resiliency.

but for real mental grit/resiliency you have to say that Nole and Rafa are greater than Fed

Greatest all around talent is Fed, without doubt. Tennis maestro. Across all sports he could actually be the greatest talent/maestro ever.

Personally FED for me as GOAT. Awful lot more than just slam counts.

The three of them have awesome stats and records. They also all gave real career longevity. There’s not much between all three when you slice and dice all the stats.

two things for me for Fed: his skills snd tennis talents definitely number 1, and his consistent brilliance and always being at or near slams for 15-16 years is what edges him for m

finally: all on their absolute best over 10 matches across all surfaces? They all beat each other and it’s very close. Maybe Nole just about winning more.

There are loads other stats and records where all three are awesome..

slam finals appearance should be a huge criterion: I think Nole on about 33 and Fed 30 or so. Nadal also 30 +

edit: 34/31/30 for Nole/Fed/Nadal. Very close

Federer is my favourite by a distance and there's arguments for all 3 being the best apart from just GS wins but the damning one against Federer is that his head to head against the others in matches is negative. Taking all other players and external factors away, both Djokovic and Nadal beat him more than he beat them

A lot of nadals wins over fed were on his favoured clay surface as well, weren't they ? And a lot more of the year is played on clay so more opportunities to win

These new young players genuinely are a disgrace, and making the big 3 seem more invincible than they are. It's like these youngsters are in competition to see who can out bottle who. As for Alcaraz being the shining light, he'll be sent right back psychologically. Shapovalov who I think has the best potential game of them all, looks like a completely broken man under pressure.

We're at the point, where Djokovic doesn't even have to play well, just show up. If he's behind, he doesn't even need to apply pressure or force his game. No, all the youngsters will just do it for him. Give him back breaks and sets on a plate, when they completely and utterly crumble.

We're at the point where grand slam counting is becoming pointless, in the sense it's not even about Djokovic being so brilliant, more so every youngster bottling it.

I was laughed at when I once said a 18 year old Lleyton Hewitt would hammer a 36 year old Djokovic. Not the player Hewitt became or peak Djokovic, but a Hewitt breaking through compared to these youngsters, playing a veteran. He had that steel and fight to see it through, which is what every youngster seems to lack.

If a player, or a few of them, broke through a few years ago with the mental steel to win, Nadal and Djokovic would have retired from routine beatings. What's going on now is completely farcical and distorting the merit and worth of a grand slam.

As I said, all Djokovic has to do is turn up. Play bad? Not a problem. Just wait for the other guy to collapse. You might be fooled into thinking Djokovic has to play better and force pressure on him to cause the collapse ye? Well that's what you'd think, but no, they'll do it all by themselves.

I can't stress it enough, these youngsters are an embarrassment to the game, and it's being going on for a few years now

You forget that Djokovic is better than ever now though , hitting the ball harder and moving better than ever according to Tim Henman and Mats Wilander.

At 36 years of age.

The reality is that he didnt get out of third gear in Paris and he is nowhere near as good as he was despite the nonsesne from the Eurosport clowns.

Gens

I think Shapovalov's supposed greatness is being massively overstated.

Any player in any sport can look like an all time great at various stages, it's meaningless though if you can't do it with some degree of consistency and if there is zero consistency in performance (as there is with Shapovalov) then it's more a case of a decent player having some stand out moments that a great player who can't get his sh1t together.

He's played 8 times against Djokovic won none of the matches and only won 2 sets against him in those 8 matches and yet apparently he was being blown away for periods? Anyone can blow away any player for a short period of time in a match it means absolutely nothing.

The argument above about Shapovalov's potential could pretty much be made about every top 100 ranked tennis player in history.

if if if if if ...

I am no fan of Nadal, but love this ...