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Green Party or Greenwashing Party?

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24567…10

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    #32
    MegamanBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120720913#Comment_120720913

    A genuine Green party could be king maker in the next election. Climate change measures could be a red line for gov agreements. A long shot but better than doing nothing.

    Failing that, I think more effective in opposition. Highlighting how little is being done.

    The little environmental efforts that are being made will continue, to try maintain our international rep, making it look to some degree like we're really trying.

    No gain by having them in gov now.



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    #33
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i admire your optimism.



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    #34
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,342 ✭✭✭prunudo


    I see this 'only the Greens care about the environment' comment a lot. I don't think thats true, an awful lot of people care about the environment, the problem with the The Greens is that they don't want compromise, the deeper their ideologies, the more entrenched they get. They believe increased taxes and imposing hardship on people is how to get their messages across. They are anti progress and won't be happy until we regress as a nation and live simple lifes growing lettuce and walking to the shops.



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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721007#Comment_120721007

    You think they'd be more effective in opposition than in govt? I'm pretty sure thats the opposite of how it works



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    #36
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,899 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    It's a strange discussion.

    We have the usual opposing opinions about the Greens.

    Some support their aims others are against.

    Unusually this time both sides have reached the same conclusion, get rid of the Green Party.



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    #37
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    and the discussion gets weirder...



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    #38
    MegamanBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721284#Comment_120721284

    I guess it depends what the goal is?

    A) Slowly, slowly incremental change - Hmmm, maybe they're helping achieve that in gov, but I think the kind of token gestures we see now would be made anyway under an FFG/SF/whoever else gov.

    B) Rapidly and meaningfully reducing c02 output. The Greens are not helping to achieve this. In fact they're supporting a gov which clearly won't deliver it.

    I think approach A is no longer the Green/Environmentalist goal. I would argue it's now pretty much the mainstream view.

    Goal B is what environmentalists are crying out for. But our 'Green' party have abandoned it. Hence the Greenwashing Party tag.



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    #39
    WheelieKing
    Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭WheelieKing


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721116#Comment_120721116

    I think you are wrong. They aren't interested in imposing hardships on people, only working and middle class people. If you are rich and can afford that 80k electric car, that 120k house refurbishment to make it "sustainable", afford to buy your shopping at farmers markets or Donnybrook fair, work from home etc.... then they will get your vote.



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    #40
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,155 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    If were to meet our climate goals it would mean pissing off nearly everyone in the country, so that's not possible. No one wants to drive less and the IFA don't want to produce less beef/dairy etc.

    Having them in Gov has meant that public transport projects have moved forward, albeit glacially, but I think we'd be in an even worse state without the Greens. I have never voted for FF or FG but for this Green voter I'm happy enough with their progress so far and will 100% vote for them in the next election.



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    #41
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,365 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The GP would be composed of various strands. Some proposals are good others are wacky. The whole approach to GHSs has to be holistic. Rewetting proposals up to now, has really done more harm than good to the green agenda.



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    #42
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721538#Comment_120721538

    the reason many people have this kneejerk reaction to the greens, is that most parties essentially promise 'what you want, and more of it' (whether or not they deliver it) whereas the GP are essentially saying 'we need to modify how industry and agriculture and society works' - and people do not like being told they should change the way they live. a 'who are you to tell me i need to change the way i live my life' reaction.



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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721452#Comment_120721452

    So we are on a 30 year plan to get to net zero and still there are vast swathes of society screaming blue murder. By all means, outline how to do this quicker, in what timeline and how you'd go about it

    I'm all for reducing our emissions and as fast as possible, however I am also a realist and a pragmatist. Different elements of society can decarbonise at different rates

    For example, tell me how you plan to get the transportation sector to net zero emissions within 5 or 10 years

    Or the power generation sector, which has a 80% target for 2030 and a 100% target for 2050.

    One I'm very interested in, the agri sector, I'd love to know how you see getting the job done for that sector in a shorter timeframe.

    As I said, I'd love to see option B, but perfect can't be the enemy of good. It takes time to make societal changes and as it is many are saying we're moving too fast (we're not) but I'd love to hear how you think we can move faster while not further alienating larger sections of society



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    #44
    MegamanBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721701#Comment_120721701

    And how seriously do you think the Green message can be taken from a party that's supports a gov allowing such massive year-on-year c02 increases?

    https://www.seai.ie/news-and-media/energy-in-ireland-2022/

    It seems Germany now has a Climate Action party representing actual environmentalists.

    https://www.ft.com/content/5c8287a6-2718-417b-9bda-4fb3f70e85fe

    If the Greens don't get their act together and fast I reckon we'll soon see a similar movement here.



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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721764#Comment_120721764

    This thread is honestly the most hilarious thing I've read on boards in ages

    "GP are a shower of bastages for making us change stuff while at the same time they are a shower of bastages for not making us change stuff faster"

    lol



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    #46
    ZookeeperDub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721452#Comment_120721452

    No matter which government is in place the minor partner takes the brunt of the blame. The Green Party are a small partner and can do very little to affect change, anything they do the population/government/opposition lose the plot and gets voted down. Case in point if the turf ban, yet all the negative press was pushed onto the Green Party yet the previous FF and FG government had agreed to ban Turf.

    The power stations that got closed recently, everyone blames the Green party yet the process was started by the previous government.

    The three main parties now in Ireland, FF/FG/SF are just as incompetent as each other and none of them have any idea what to do about CO2. Two of them have to make decision while the 3rd criticises, but ask them for an opinion and they can't come up with one.

    I don't support any of the parties mentioned including the Green party but at least I can see what is happening.

    Irish Green Party and their fanatics are absolutely dangerous.and some of their followers who are in the media non stop are pissing off the general public no end.

    In regards to this comment, the most dangerous I see around are the followers of the other parties who are a huge majority and seem to have no issue using whatever tactics to get across their "views"

    One of two Green fanatics are not the issues with you have thousands of fanatics of other parties. Like most subject it is easier to concentrate on the small minority instead of the bigger issues with a larger group.



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    #47
    MegamanBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Here's an article explaining what Greenwashing is.

    https://earth.org/what-is-greenwashing/

    Of note here are the tell-tale signs of greenwashing. See point 2:

    • Declarations from a company that it is slightly greener than the rest, even if the rest are pretty terrible (eg. BP placing solar panels on its gas stations and saying that it is “working to be more sustainable”)

    Now compare this with the pro 'Green' party comments here on how they've made some improvement on public transport, etc.

    By this definition of greenwashing our 'Green' party are guilty of same. They are touting sustainability (Look! a little more public transport) while causing more waste (supporting FFG and our soaring co2 outputs).



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    #48
    ZookeeperDub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721900#Comment_120721900

    The reality is the people of Ireland are blocking the majority of proposals to increase public transport. A bicycle lane will cause uproar for months, planning meetings, council meetings, numerous rejections, article etc before it can be built years later. So even if the Green party make proposals now it will be in the next government before they are implemented

    The biggest issue in politics in Ireland is the main parties, FF/FG/SF have no intention of pushing forward a green agenda and will do just enough to make out they care while firing ahead with whatever else they have planned to do. Would "greenwashing" not be the correct name to call these parties? that would sound more apt to me.



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    #49
    MegamanBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721990#Comment_120721990

    If you acknowledge FFG are greenwashing, how do you proport the 'Greens' are not part of this same effort? They're part of the same government!

    I think there's quite a few environmental efforts which would get public support, a proper retrofitting scheme, widespread work from home, rewetting, faster renewable roll outs, faster improvements to public transport, ev subsidies, to name a few.

    I think even more radical proposals would get support from younger generations, circular economy, universal income, 4 day week.

    We don't really know because there's no genuine political representation for these ideas.



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    #50
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721007#Comment_120721007

    What policies do you want brought in by the Green Party?



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    #51
    MegamanBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120719869#Comment_120719869

    Yeah if we're not careful someone might get hurt.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/dishashetty/2021/07/30/climate-change-would-cause-83-million-excess-deaths-by-2100/



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    #52
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    FWIW the tyres were deflated, not slashed/punctured.



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    #53
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722292#Comment_120722292

    Still absolutely inexcusable behaviour though.



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    #54
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,373 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722292#Comment_120722292

    still vandalism pure and simple and unjustified.

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #55
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭donaghs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721748#Comment_120721748

    The "green agenda" means different things to different people. If the Green Party are really serious about reducing carbon emissions, and reducing the impact of people on the environment in Ireland, why on earth would they suggesting we double the size of our population?

    "We must start planning for being an island of 10 million people, including bringing people in as refugees in scale, not just 200 people, but a much larger number and managing it."

    Calais Migrant Camp: Statements – Dáil Éireann (32nd Dáil) – Wednesday, 2 Nov 2016 – Houses of the Oireachtas

    There's more to their ideologies than just reducing emissions.



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    #56
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,363 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722720#Comment_120722720

    Disgraceful.


    For all we know one of those people could have had a really important hospital appointment.

    Idiots.



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    #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722738#Comment_120722738

    The population is growing and that growth should be planned for. To do otherwise would be reckless and counter productive



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    #58
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the quote used mentions the island of ireland - which is already at over 7m anyway.



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    #59
    JPup
    Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭JPup


    I very strongly disagree with the premise of this argument. Eamonn Ryan isn't god, nor is the government in general. They can't just click their fingers and magic Ireland into a net zero emissions state.

    The fact is that more progress has been made in the last couple of years to move Ireland towards a net zero future than in the previous 10 years combined. We now have binding targets and a coherent plan that future governments will have to stick to.



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    #60
    MegamanBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722828#Comment_120722828

    You mean we've kicked the can down the road?

    Because even this government, which the 'Greens' are a part of, aren't sticking to the targets.



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    #61
    JPup
    Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭JPup


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722738#Comment_120722738

    The population of Ireland (32 counties) is already at 7 million. It will hit 10 million this century based on current population projections. That is not 'green' ideology. It is simply good governance to try to plan for future growth.

    Honestly, a lot of the criticism on this thread is nonsensical.



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