Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

I was in favour of the SK appointment and always thought he needed time to instill his philosophy and ideas etc. He also needed to overhaul our playing pool and bring through a lot of young players.

However, this was the campaign he was always aiming for. Irrespective of the other teams in our group consistent performances and displays were a must. Kenny has had these players together for at least two weeks and had plenty of time to prepare for Greece. We were shambolic at times last night.

His big selection calls of Smallbone and O'Dowda were a complete disaster. The game completely bypassed Smallbone and he didn't seem to have any idea of his role defensively.

O'Dowda obviously was at fault for both goals. Didn't have any idea what was going on around him for the second goal. These two and Lenihan were the calls Kenny made and 2 were very poor.

Greece rely on the wing backs for switching play and creating chances. We should have gone for 2 solid wing backs at least until the second half.

I think Kenny needs to go but, I have no ideas in regards who could or even want to replace him. I think whoever comes in needs to make us harder to play against. I think you can be hard to play against without necessarily being a long ball team.

The point I was making about Wales was Toshack had the stature and know how to do it. He was given time. Kenny was/is learning on the job - with low profile/stature.

When Toshack took the Wales job (2004) that was his second spell as an international manager. He had a short spell in 1994. Plus Tosack had top level managerial experience behind him.

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All before he took the Wales job again in 2004 - Toshack had all that top management experience done, He was 53 years of aged experienced, well spoken in media. And had his high profile playing career on top of that - which gave him his stature. It gave trust as well.

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In contrast Stephen Kenny - his only managerial experience outside the league of Ireland at club level was Dunfermline in Scotland. At International Level he only managed the Ireland u21's for three years with no successes. No playing career/management of note to fall back on in his late 40's when he got the Ireland senior job.

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Brian Kerr this is the key contrast to Kenny - no experience at club level beyond LOI before he took the Ireland job. But Kerr had 6 years of underage International football management, And was wildly successful. This gave Kerr a profile and stature in the game to fall back on. Despite having no playing career of note.

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Kenny was doomed to fail for the following reasons

1) No real stature as a manager or player (Stature would buy a fella time - also gives likely more know how tactically etc)

2) Wedded to a 'philosophy' regardless of the players available and whether it would make Ireland competitive - that is basically putting the cart before the horse.

3) Poor communicator in the media - he makes Noel King seem like a great orator in comparison - these days a manager has to be able for the media stuff. His mate Vinny Perth even alluded to how 'up and down' Kenny has been with the media stuff. (It would hardly inspire the fans/players etc. You just end up perplexed. or feeling sorry for Kenny after one of his press conferences.)

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The team was old, in dire need of refreshment. Instead of bringing younger players through consistently we never did it, there was no progression from u21s to the senior team, which left a massive job for Kenny to overhaul.

And this “a goal away from qualifying” is incredibly selective nonsense imo, designed to make it sound like Kenny was handed some golden generation .It was a goal we never were going to get too, because the entire philosophy of Mick and previous managers is don’t get beat. A point is the desired outcome as long as it doesn’t knock us out. That campaign we didn’t play for a goal at all until we went behind. We’d play for a 0-0. Even that last game, we got an early goal but were then thoroughly outplayed and kept at arms length.

It’s fine saying we were tough to beat but we hadn’t a hope of winning a game either, and that is a requirement if you’re going to qualify for things - and remember, this was Micks one and only job, and he failed. 2 results he got that some people would have crucified Kenny for: 1-0 away to Gibraltar and 0-0 away to Georgia. And the FAI ended up paying him an extra million for the privilege.

He does make Noel king look like anything. Let’s not get carried away.

Rodgers is likely on his way to Celtic and didn't want to manage in the championship....no hope he was doing the Ireland job.

Kerr was denied another campaign he had earned because he was "LOI" and wasn't considered of sufficient gravitas and stature. Kerr was close in a tough group after successfully overhauling the "ways of working" around the Senior setup, i.e. the facilities, the food, the travelling arrangements, etc. Keane praised him after the fact and indicated that he should have been retained.

My view is that Kenny was an entirely appropriate appointment. He had done well with Dundalk and the U21s and had demonstrated an ability to get results in European football with the odds against his teams. I have no time for the 'he's just a LOI manager' view.

But it hasn't worked on the pitch from very early, and he has struggled to handle the media. The FAI probably gave him more time than was earned on the field, one campaign too many. But in many ways, we probably needed to do that, given the desperation in the media and on the terraces for Kenny to succeed.

A massive mistake that happened with Kerr was losing him from the system entirely. Kenny could play a future role at U21 / Development level in an ideal world.

Think you mean Dundalk instead of Drogheda but I won't disagree with too much of that although I do think people forget how the Kerr era ended with some poor performances and very defensive setups in matches we needed to win. I think the disastrous Staunton era covers up just how much everyone wanted change after the WC06 campaign.

Players are only one part of the equation, though. As much as I think we've had 15 years of 'grass is greener' moaning about players not being selected (the Andy Reid criticism), and I think this is one aspect of Kenny's reign that needs to endure, it's ultimately the minor part of the equation. We can bring players through more frequently while being tougher to beat without completely surrendering the initiative to use the ball.

The reason Kerr was sacked was not entirely because of his LOI mantle IMO.

The reason was sacked mainly was the Irish public had 'notions'. Kerr's approach was viewed as too conservative by sections of the media and the fans.

So he was given his p45 by Delaney and fell out big style with the FAI. No involvement with them after that which was a terrible waste of football knowledge. I think Kerr was the most harshly done out of it manager - by the way.

Kerr had LOI support and non LOI support due to his success at underage, so it was too much to ignore for the FAI initially. Kenny by contrast only got the job because the FAI were stuck, and wanted to save money. So they could dress it up as 'building for the future' with zero expectations.

The way some people are talking you would swear Kenny was the first Irish manager to blood players internationally. I already mentioned Stan he tried a load of players - Dixon Lapria etc.

Mick McCarthy blooded a load of players after the Charlton era - Mark Kennedy - Kilbane etc. Even big Jack blooded players in his own way (finding Aldo and Houghton at Oxford). I well remember the hype over the '3 amigos' - Babb - McAteeer - Gary Kelly prior to USA 94.

I acknowledged Egan shoulda been in sooner instead of Keogh.

For Lenihan he is lucky to have even had 4. He wouldn't even have had one yesterday if one of Omobamidele or O'Shea were fit enough to start, and if both were fit he'd have struggled to even get the final spot on the bench over Sykes, but probably woulda just scraped it.

He was simply never good enough to play so there really wasn't room no. He was never a better option than emergency back up to the back up. International Football isn't club football games are fairly scarce theres no Carabao Cup to give the fringe reserves a run out.

No national team regularly gives game time to the emergency back ups to the back up. That'd be insanity.

The real litmus test will be how many of these Kenny debutants will be held onto by subsequent managers as mainstays? And how many will be dropped as starters? Personally I think only about 4/5 players are safe from any cull.

Parrott, Molumby, Idah, Obafemi, Cullen, Johnston, Smallbone, McGrath, would struggle to be starters under future management. Ogbene might only be an impact sub with with his pace. IMO.

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So basically Kenny's legacy will be three centre backs (Collins - Lenihan - O'Shea) - two keepers (Bazunu Kelleher) - and a forward (Ferguson). starting and maybe the Ogbene impact sub. Six/Seven players?

The rest could all be got rid of by more pragmatic future managers for various reasons. I think those keepers, centre backs and Ferguson would have received debuts regardless of which manager was in charge because of their obvious quality and level they play at.

The midfield was the biggest issue last night. We went in level at HT, and though I'm not his greatest fan, Hendrick, I thought his experience would have been the obvious HT switch to try bring a bit of cohesion in the MF. Instead, Johnson came in, nut meg, O'Dowda sleeping and thereafter chasing the game all over again, with barely a pass completed by anyone

I think the first paragraph sums up perfectly the problem with Irish football fans. Supporting elite premiership teams seems to give the average Irish soccer fan a bit of sense of delusion when it comes to the Irish football team. I'm a Liverpool fan so not like I'm knocking support a foreign club.

You talking about minding the kids until a more "qualified" person comes in. Who is this more qualified person youbhave in mind exactly? Would genuinely be very interested in a list of all these more qualified managers who would be interested in the job.

The fai are highly unlikely to appoint Roy keane because they don’t want to be embarrassed by press questions about why they employed a personality known to fall out with people around him…..after he would inevitably fall out with people if he got the job.

to emphasize when you are on an executive with the responsibility of making important decisions you have to make sure there are not obviously predictable negative consequences to the decision.

if Roy keane was appointed I would take it as a very worrying development to the soundness of the decision making body in the fai executive

We haven’t consistently qualified for anything with pragmatic football.

88/90/94 we had some of the best players in England playing for us under a pressing game developed by Charlton

2002 we had an unbelievable team in Irish terms. Quality from back to front, nothing pragmatic about it.

2012 we did qualify by being defensively sound and pragmatic, it never developed and we were humiliated at the finals with I believe the joint worst record of any team in the euros

2016 was memorable but we finished third and got a play off - the least difficult route to a finals we’ll ever get.

I have no problem with a team being defensively minded and tough to beat, but that cannot be the end of it - we need to evolve from there, which previous managers wouldn’t do, we’d just hear that we’re limited and this is the only way we can play.

Irish football hasn’t been set back by Kenny, quite the opposite. There is a structure of youth to build on over the next couple of seasons for whoever comes in.

Ireland qualified for tournaments under Jack Charlton primarily because the team contained world class players relative to the standard of the time. He is the only manager pragmatic or not who Ireland has qualified for more than one tournament under. Referring to my previous post, I do not say the manager is immaterial. I say you need at least one world class player and then the manager can come up with the right game plan. Mick McCarthy had Robbie Keane, Roy Keane and Damien Duff as a trio to make things happen, plus a whole host of others playing in the top flight in England to support them. It's not rocket science to observe that Ireland's strongest periods as a team has been when it has had great players playing, first and foremost, along with a manager who can get the best out of them.

Trap was nothing if not pragmatic and got Ireland to one tournament out of 3 attempts. Not really consistent. O'Neill also criticised as too pragmatic, and his competitive record with Ireland records more failures than success. It's not that pragmatic football has been much more successful for Ireland. The periods of success, the periods of when Ireland looked like a side who could give anyone a game, have been when great players were involved.

To talk about the right manager without talking about the right players puts Ireland in the same situation its been in since its last clutch of great players began to wane. A manager can only do so much, here, and that limitation will always leave us with a glass ceiling and an endless debate between those calling for pragmatism and those calling for adventure.

Yes perhaps a manager who falls out with people in a environment where you can’t sell or buy players is what we really need

It would make less sense NOT to appoint Keane in my opinion. Given the scarcity of choices. Beggars can't be chooser's.

Plus the FAI are well past the point of being able to be embarrassed. The 'fall out' could be dealt with in one press conference - done. Then the media would be more interested in 'Roy's first line up' etc.

Yes perhaps the fai are so beyond the possibility of humiliation that when their manager starts calling people “pricks” and “****” it won’t actually be a major PR own goal

Damn straight