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Random EV thoughts.....

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭zg3409


    In the past dealers made more on finance than the actual sale of a new car. People often go with the finance offered by dealer, which is often a bad deal.

    Often smaller dealers dont even "own" used cars on their forecourt, often getting a finance companies to own them so the dealer does not have cash tied up in stock.

    Often dealers make massive mark up on servicing as the day to day big income.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    That won't happen, but if they switch to a service model like the ranger service with Tesla then I'd be happy

    I'm fed up of bringing the car to the moron brigade in VW to be told they don't know what's wrong with it

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    To be clear, I believe the agency model actually includes a fixed fee for the dealership. It isn't like Tesla where you buy the car from them directly and have no interaction with the dealership

    I agree it gets rid of the ability to negotiate, but it also removes a lot of the hassle dealing with salespeople who haven't a clue what they're selling. Just order a car, pick a dealership for delivery and the rest happens automatically would be ideal IMO

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I've no problem with advertised prices changing, it's no different than when Curry's change a price and put that price in front of all customers. What shouldn't happen is person walks into a store, pays €20,000 next customer purchases for €17,000 and the third get's it for €19,000. Your buying a commodity item, the price should be the price.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Just in case you weren't convinced hydrogen is dead, here's Uncle Bjorn with some hard truths

    The part which shocked me the most is that the Mirai is the size of a Model S but the hydrogen tanks and fuel cells take up so much space it's effectively a Yaris on the inside

    Here's a quick summary of why hydrogen is the dumbest thing since they banned sliced bread:


    Most hydrogen comes from natural gas and isn't emission free because that's the cheapest way to make it

    Electrolysis has huge losses and isn't economically viable

    You can just use the electricity for other things

    The losses are huge, over 50%. The Mirai has similar motorway range to a Model 3 LR and has a energy content of around 175kWh (compared to 75kWh on the Model 3)

    For the price of one hydrogen filling station you can build 20x 150kW chargers (great example of a bus charging depot in the video)

    The filling stations can only fill 5 cars before they need to pause to gasify more hydrogen


    So yeah, top notch investment, can't wait to see how Japan does with it

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭wassie


    What shouldn't happen is person walks into a store, pays €20,000 next customer purchases for €17,000 and the third get's it for €19,000.

    Thats exactly what happens. You do realise you can haggle at most department stores on the ticketed price for more expensive goods? People just don't ask.

    Do you think you would very feel differently if you were one of the customers who got badly burnt by Tesla earlier this year? I would have been fuming knowing the next guy saved thousands for exactly the same car overnight.

    There was massive outrage in the US & China. It was reported that a lot of people claimed that their Tesla adviser told them there were no upcoming price drops and placed orders on that basis. Then in typical Tesla style, overnight they massively discounted the price. That kind of thing leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths such that it feels not too dissimiliar from a bad experience with a dealer.

    When your buying a car, often also theres a lead times and finance involved, so not like buying goods from a shop. For most people its the second buggest purchase after a house.

    But to be fair, Tesla do allow you to lock in a price at time of ordering and delay delivery. That is something that is a definate plus and has been used by many of us to our advantage. I do wonder how long this will last though as it used to game the system somewhat. I'm not aware of other brands that will allow this on a vehicle with a long lead time and typically would pass on price rises while waiting for delivery on longer waits.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Of course I know it happens, thats why I said I didn't like. Two people buying the same item on the same day should pay the same price and not be forced to compete with each other for a bigger discount. With an agency model I don't have to waste time phoning many sellers to try and find one offering the biggest discount.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    While I get the outrage for existing owners with the Tesla price cuts, and don't get me wrong I would equally be pissed off, the same level if outrage is rarely expressed when it's the other way around, which is the norm tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭wassie


    Has any one rented or know what the deal is with returning a rental EV with regards to the state of charge?

    Typically with an ICE if you dont return the tank to a similar level or better, you get stung on refuelling charges.

    But I imagine not so easy to top an an EV just before returning it, at least in this country with our lack of charging, particularly in an around Dublin airport.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I don't think there's anything specific but I'd probably try to charge it up because I wouldn't trust the rental company to do it without burning the place down

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭wassie


    So a bit of googly on the interwebs shows that typically SoC for return vehicle needs to be around 70-75%.

    This is Budget's take:

    Electric cars will be supplied with at least 80% battery charge. All electric cars must be returned with 70% or more battery power remaining. If you return the car with less than 70% battery a €100 fee will be charged for recharging.

    Tesla supercharger usage will be billed when you are returning your vehicle.

    Potentially you could get stung for a hundred quid for being a few kW under! OUCH!

    When Im away for work, its pretty standard to fill up the vehicle on the way back to the airport to drop it off.

    Trying doing that mid-late afternoon around Dublin airport - you would need to allow a hell of a lot of extra time. Becomes more problematic if you have to sign up & install an app in order to get a charge!



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,820 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    www.warpnews.org/transportation/new-test-81-miles-increased-range-for-electric-cars/



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    UFO Drive is a good one for rental if available in the location. I don't think there's any min and charging is all included. You pre-book for a block of kms and if over then per km.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    If it only needs to be 70% full then a charge anywhere within 100-150km of the airport would do



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    thats still a pain in practical terms.

    With a petrol car you can fill it at any number of stations within a few km of the airport in a couple of minutes. You can pay for the fuel with your card or cash, to a human at a till. The only complication is for americans who arent used to pumping their own petrol!!

    With a rental EV, and you a tourist with no clue of the charging infrastructure or charging speeds or possible little to no experience of EVs (at this stage, probably the latter), and all the info you need hidden in a myriad of apps, which require data packages abroad (and for most tourists, you rent abroad) - its a headwrecker.

    I can very much imagine using the UFO model where they take the pain out of the charging procedure, but until the other companies cop themselves on I'll be renting only petrol or diesel from them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭wassie


    At least in the UK they have mandated that all public chargepoints should be capable of utlising ‘pay as you go’ debit or credit card payment option.

    We are only seeing Applegree roll this out at scale at this stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭innrain


    I have witnessed a painful EV rental experience this year at Hertz Manchester. A colleague of mine arrived one day ahead so he was in charge of renting. I didn't know what he got but not little was the surprise when he pointed us to "my" car. A blue 2021 Tesla 3LR with only 9k miles. It turned out it was the only reasonable availability. Hertz staff didn't explain one little thing, there was a QR code on the dash but "who has the time". The car started popping errors and at some point it was lit as a xmas tree. Even the headlights were flashing. I kid you not. I have never seen a rental in such a bad shape, and I rented from some dodgy places in my life. Again the guy didn't want to sped a minute looking into this. For example we visited a business campus where I counted at least 40 AC chargers. He could have plugged in but no. I have no time for this. On the way back we charged at a BP close to the airport which turned out very slow. about 35kW which took us plenty of time. So the guy was not really impressed by the whole EV experience and swears "never ever".

    My own experience in Zurich was that they charged me a petrol tank just to see how clueless the desk staff were. They gave me a Leaf but didn't know what battery size.

    Ref Dublin airport there is Radisson with its chargers which should alleviate the charging issue. I got steady 60kW from the DC. If travel from afar one could plan to arrive earlier and have a bite to eat there instead of whatever it is served at the airport's food outlets (reluctant to call them restaurants). If only a top up needed, parking is free for 20 mins that about 20kWh or about 30% of battery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭wassie


    My days are generally full enough that I don't have that luxury. Any time buffer I have is goes towards allowing for traffic in trying to get to the airport. I'll be making sure I defo alway book an ICE everytime Im away.

    While the charging situation may be better in other countries, you've reminded me of all the times I've had to deal with numpties behind the counter. Hard enough dealing with a standard rental, so no need to complicate it further, especially when youve got a plane to catch and they know they have you by the short and curlies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭sk8board


    very Interesting technology - let’s see if/when it trickles down

    see the info in the post in the link below

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CtgXN6HNbzc/?igshid=YmM0MjE2YWMzOA==





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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    It looks awesome but I do wonder realistically how much if it will ever filter down to the mass market

    Manufacturers have been able to produce super aerodynamic cars for decades (look at any racing series) but the best selling cars are still brick shaped SUVs made out of steel and aluminium

    I'm sure if anyone wanted to produce carbon fibre cars at scale they could, but it doesn't seem to scale on cost

    Hopefully things improve in the future, I remember Ford or GM were looking at composite materials (basically plastics or resins) for car bodies because they were lighter than steel. It might be something we see in future models

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,049 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Trabant, you've just become cool and trendy 💕💕



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,425 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Toyota continue to be the embarrassing uncle. Fake engine noise is not new, but they’ve also developed a gear stick that does nothing and allows the car to pretend to stall if you fumble the controls. To preserve the driving experience.





  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,316 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭hoodie6029


    Driving an EV reduces road rage and brings zen, according to Adrian Weckler anyway.

    Deliberately doing 85 in a 100 though, hopefully he pulls over when he picks up a ‘following’ on the 2 lane roads.

    https://m.independent.ie/business/technology/how-my-electric-car-made-me-a-mindful-motorist/a169716700.html

    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Redfox25


    Wonder when it breaks, will you need a new "gearbox"?

    Trying to stay relevant, they need a rethink.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,306 ✭✭✭markpb


    “In my VW electric car, if I drive to Belmullet, Co Mayo, from Dublin at the allowable speed limits, I’ll use around 90pc of my car’s battery. In cold weather, this goes up to at least 95pc.”

    I wish my car was only 5% less efficient in cold weather!

    He also claims the EV charging network is rubbish on Dublin - Belmullet but it has at least 2 x 150kW charge points, several 50kW charge points and there’s a 50kW and a 22kW in Belmullet itself. There’s even 4 x 3.5kW Tesla destination chargers if you’re really, really stuck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    To be fair that is fairly crap

    I'm in France at the moment and passed some random Total motorway service station outside Paris which had around 8-12 150kW Delta chargers

    The station across the motorway had another bunch of HPCs

    Despite that I've seen a fraction of the number of EVs here as in Ireland

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    I think the last point is very valid. Despite the constant negativity on here about how Ireland is promoting EVs or not being sufficiently harsh on ICE use, EV transition is gaining significant momentum here compared to other far larger car markets. The only downside is the number of oversized EVs like ID4s threading their way through urban settings.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Don't insult my Bluey 😉

    To be fair, I've spotted a few and EVs are selling well enough in France, I just feel like they're probably selling well in cities and not suburbs (I'm outside Paris at the moment)

    I've seen a few Tesla's so far, a Citroen eC4 and I think I spotted an ID.4 and a C40 recharge

    Out of the probably couple of thousand cars I spotted yesterday, that's not the best statistics

    What boggles my mind is that this is despite electricity being dirt cheap in France and petrol being as expensive as Ireland from what I've seen. You'd think an EV would be an absolute no brainer here

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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