Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Polar101 · 17-06-2023 6:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727499#Comment_120727499

Russia is not content to defend - if they could attack they would. Remember Russia annexed 4 oblasts which they do not fully occupy, and obviously they'd want to push Ukraine out of those areas. But they aren't strong enough to do that. Holding position isn't some masterplan by Putin, that's all they can do at the moment.

zv2 · 17-06-2023 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727312#Comment_120727312

At this point it is not a question of whether the Ukrainians are making progress, it is a question of what that progress costs. A recent news item said their losses are 'substantial'. How long can they go with substantial losses? It is really a question of how much this offensive will cost them. If their losses are substantial all the way to the Black Sea what state will their army be in at the end of it?

@Wolf359f "You obviously have some wee equation for success or failure"

No but what I do have is a catalogue of Russian failures in their tank offensives. They don't work for the Russians so how will they work for Ukraine? I'm not saying they won't work, but if they do it will be at a terrible cost. My argument is that Ukraine needs to supplement their offensive with awesome artillery power. If they already have that all is good to go and I'm cheering them on but I'm not aware that they do have it and the west needs to give it to them. Even if the west can't do this they must do it and if it is impossible they must make it possible. Ukraine needs to lambaste Russian positions with artillery and force them to retreat. That way they won't lose so much.

Gatling · 17-06-2023 7:17pm

Putin the saviour of children according to himself when meeting the South African delegate's today.......

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1670118957439762440?s=20

Jinglejangle69 · 17-06-2023 7:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727638#Comment_120727638

What an absolute evil prick of the highest order.

briany · 17-06-2023 7:26pm

@zv2

At this point it is not a question of whether the Ukrainians are making progress, it is a question of what that progress costs. A recent news item said their losses are 'substantial'. How long can they go with substantial losses? It is really a question of how much this offensive will cost them. If their losses are substantial all the way to the Black Sea what state will their army be in at the end of it?

That question can only really be answered by AFU commanders at this stage, i.e. the people most likely to be getting accurate intelligence on their side's casualty rate, but they'll be keeping that information close to their chest. For us watching on, the best evaluation of whether the offensive is a success or failure, or whether the gains are worth the cost, is if offensive operations continue along the front. I very much doubt that the AFU will be calling time on the thing nine days in, somehow.

Brussels Sprout · 17-06-2023 7:32pm

Utter Bastards

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1670136975108587524

zv2 · 17-06-2023 7:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727687#Comment_120727687

Early in the war they were calling for castration on RT. Where's the napalm?

Wolf359f · 17-06-2023 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727635#Comment_120727635

So you're basis of it being a failure is a news report? Quite a few news reports of it being a failure, all quoting the same source..... Putin.

Only 30% of their armor is currently involved so far. Were you expecting them all to just charge the Frontline or maybe they are poking and prodding the front to find weaknesses. Everyone is fixated on Ukrainian losses around Zaporizhzhia while ignoring the success they are having elsewhere.

Maybe, just maybe AFU know more about what's happening than we and the media do. Maybe they know they would loose armor and not all assaults would be successful. Maybe they know they just need to find one weakness on the Frontline and then commit the rest of their forced to punching through it, rather than trying to punch through all 1500km of the Frontline etc..

zv2 · 17-06-2023 7:56pm

@briany "If they want people to cut out the orc talk, the door out of Ukraine is thattaway ===>>>."

I agree. The Russian people need to hear it loud and clear and understand how they appear to us. Just look at what is acceptable to them on RT.

wassie · 17-06-2023 7:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727687#Comment_120727687

That is sub-human.

Orcs it is.

Dubh Geannain · 17-06-2023 8:02pm

Hopefully this is them pulling back from Rivopnil. Location has been geo confirmed as between the two locations listed in the tweet.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1670124422127132673?t=XvOiBix-Cl-vaPv5gtKEIA&s=19

zv2 · 17-06-2023 8:02pm

@Wolf359f "So your basis of it being a failure is a news report"

No, I don't say it is a failure, I'm saying it is not succeeding at the moment. Or if it is, the cost is too great, especially in these early stages. They need some way of blasting Russian cannon fodder, without serious losses. Artillery seems to work for the Russians and Ukraine has great precision artillery but not enough of it. It seems 90% of dumb Russian artillery is wasted making holes in fields so Ukraine would only need a decent fraction of the shells the Russians have, but they don't seem to even have that.

Furze99 · 17-06-2023 8:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727465#Comment_120727465

It's a bit late for this. Why do you wish Russian people well? They have embraced and facilitated this regime of warfare, whether willingly or unwillingly. Prigozhin made a fair point when he talked of despising the Russian elite and middle classes living lives of relative luxury and in relative calm whilst the bodies of his conscripts piled up. They are all guilty of prosecuting this war and they will be despised as a people for decades to come. Just as to be German was a dirty word for decades after WW2, so is the lot of the Russian people to come.

17-06-2023 8:22pm

Russia hold over 100,000 km2. Ukraine taking back 100 km2 in a week is .1%. That's practically a rounding error and it came at considerable cost.

Taking well-defended and heavily-mined territory is costly. It was costly for Russia to take it and it will be costly for Ukraine to take it back.

Furze99 · 17-06-2023 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727823#Comment_120727823

But we simply don't know this - we are too close in time to really know what is happening on the ground and too far away in distance. We can forget that it is the collective will of the 'West' that Russian military are driven out of Ukraine and that there is considerable capacity for intelligence gathering in the west, which information and strategising will be being shared with Ukraine. This must be a source of great concern to the Russian military, they may think they have a handle on the capacity of the Ukrainian army but quite uncertain what is being gathered about them & fed to Ukr commanders.

Kermit.de.frog · 17-06-2023 8:27pm

https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/status/1670148688876797955

Not good narratives for the German public starting to appear in their media.

Say my name · 17-06-2023 8:31pm

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1670136975108587524?t=Tm6m1bdCAVx2oDAG4Xscwg&s=19

I'm going to sound like RT television now.

Can we not just drop nukes on Russia already. It'll kill good people but it'll get the monsters too.

Russian SS units systematically making sure their prisoners of war are humiliated enough and won't breed more Ukrainian people.

Brussels Sprout · 17-06-2023 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727931#Comment_120727931

That's a pro-Kremlin propaganda account. Very good chance that guy just cherry picked some quotes out of context so as to misinterpret the message of the entire article

Gerry T · 17-06-2023 8:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727931#Comment_120727931

Did you click the link ? The first couple of comments ripping that poster for making up stuff that's not in the article, suggesting this is his typical tactic.

We have a number of posters on here doing the same.

Wolf359f · 17-06-2023 8:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727911#Comment_120727911

The considerable cost.....

Let me guess... A dozen Bradley's in a field in Zaporizhzhia, the same failed counterattack that keeps being brought up again and again.

Most of the territory gained has not been on the Zaporizhzhia front. So yes it was a costly failed offensive there, but elsewhere along the line they are making gains.

Everyone saying the counteroffensive is failing etc... Is focusing on one of 4 hot spots on the Frontline. Pretty much exactly how Russia would like the narrative to remain.

Brussels Sprout · 17-06-2023 8:59pm

I found an English translation of that Der Spiegel article. As expected that propaganda account took a line out of context and twisted it to make it sound as bad as possible:

Going into battle in a tank is frightening, something that Sasha, 55, is quick to admit. "For the enemy, we are always the first target," the tank commander says. Misha, the 25-year-old gunner, says that he has always been lucky so far. "Two of my tanks have been destroyed since the beginning of the war, but I’m still alive." There are even soldiers who try to get out of it, says the 22-year-old loader, who goes by the nom de guerre "Hudzik." Sometimes, he says, soldiers will even invent a problem with their tank. None of the three Ukrainian soldiers hold it against those who refuse to fight. Misha knows that his luck, too, could turn. "If they hit the turret, you’re just a pile of ashes," he says. "It’s better to refuse to go into battle than to chicken out in the middle of the fight," Hudzik says. Fear, says Sasha, isn’t the problem. That begins to fade once the first shot is fired. Panic though – that must be avoided at all costs.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/on-the-front-in-ukraine-going-into-battle-in-a-leopard-2-tank-a-9baffb53-1e5b-4a18-8ec5-173d067721af

The silly thing is that there are plenty of other anecdotes in that article he could have trumpeted directly that would have suited his needs without having to resort to making stuff up.

rolling boh · 17-06-2023 9:02pm

None of us know the true cost of the counter offensive and maybe a lot of us were a bit over optimistic about the progress but it's not defeatist or pro Putin to question the likely huge cost to the Ukrainians to push Putin out .We had posters predicting the collapse of the Russians months ago but unfortunately they still will be very hard to break and be pushed out completely. Hope I am well wrong about that .

thereitisgone · 17-06-2023 9:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727261#Comment_120727261

Deep breaths....... breath again

This is just the start of a very long summer autumn campaign, if your losing your head now, by September your gonna be in bits

This is gonna be a long slow process, the Russians are more prepared now.

But Ukraine will prevail in the end but this will take time

thomil · 17-06-2023 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728007#Comment_120728007

That's very likely exactly what happened, because that post has almost nothing to do with the content of the Spiegel article. I just read through this twice, and still haven't found the "heavy losses" that twit is talking about. The tidbit I took away from the article is that the vast majority of Ukraine's assets allocated to the offensive haven't even been committed yet

zv2 · 17-06-2023 9:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728073#Comment_120728073

They need to find a way to pound Russian positions so the can move in with minimal losses. More artillery.

Jinglejangle69 · 17-06-2023 9:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728156#Comment_120728156

Its all about the air capabilities which unfortunately Ukraine just doesn’t have.

Brussels Sprout · 17-06-2023 9:37pm

This is a handy site for anyone looking to view data on the Russian defensive fortifications:

https://read.bradyafrick.com/p/russian-field-fortifications-in-ukraine

This is high-level view of the Zaporizhzhia-Donetsk region. From what I can make out by comparing it to the front-line maps it seems that the further west you go the nearer Ukraine are to those defensive lines right now.

The region where they have been taking the most villages in the last week is just south of Velyka Novosilka so that's still over 10km to the defensive lines in that part of the front. (I added the current front-line in blue)

Gatling · 17-06-2023 9:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728208#Comment_120728208

It's air power,fast jets, Helicopters,and a hell of a lot more mobile artillery,they are expected to fight a Nato /US type war missing most the the equipment to do exactly that ,a few months training will only get them so far ,all the while facing unmapped mines fields ,mass artillery and fortifications and attack helicopters,

It's going to be a tough few months

Jinglejangle69 · 17-06-2023 10:01pm

Seems another K-52 downed.

4th in the last 5 days.

Have Ukraine received something in the last few days?

Gatling · 17-06-2023 10:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728400#Comment_120728400

Likely manpads,they have been responsible for the most of the helicopters Been taken down

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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