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Random Renewables Thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,232 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    There's always research ongoing, but it'll take a long time for any gains now to filter down to mass market

    There's panels available now that are a bit more efficient than the cheaper mass market ones, but they're a good bit more expensive so generally the few extra watts you get aren't worthwhile

    As @graememk said even on an overcast day in summer you can get quite a bit of solar generation. I got 16.9kWh from my 6kWp array against 14.3kWh consumption

    As long as I'm generating more than I'm using then I'm happy 😁

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Dev1234


    His username was EamonnResearch.

    There is a thread on here somewhere where he requested data from solar systems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,232 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    In France at the moment, despite the sunshine and obvious benefit of having air conditioning with as a solar diverter here I've yet to see a single solar panel

    Okay I'll admit I haven't seen a huge number of houses but a fair number of businesses with plenty of roof space

    I know energy prices back home are a pain, but they have spurred a lot of people to look at rooftop solar

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,317 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Was in Portugal the last 2 weeks and same story. Almost all houses had solar thermal though and some houses had PV panels alright, but fewer than here in Ireland. I guess they don't really need to as the percentage renewables in Portugal is already extremely high, often 100%. Probably because of the location. There are large solar PV farms, they have substantial hydro and wind too. Not an EV to be seen though...



  • Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭curioustony


    I think smart meter penetration is quite low on Europe too. Italy, Ireland and the UK seem to be ahead on that one...

    🌞4.55 kWp, azimuth 136°, slope 24°, 5kW, 🛢️10.9kWh, Roscommon



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,232 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah I guess for France having lots of (subsidised) nuclear power just means they don't have the same focus on microgeneration

    Also I suppose that French cities are a lot denser than Irish ones so not the same benefits

    I find the lack of air conditioning in houses bizarre. I know that the heat waves have only gotten really bad in the past decade or so. But hot summers in northern France aren't exactly a new concept

    I suppose the locals are better adapted to the climate, us Paddy's are famously bad at warm weather 😂

    Still, the human body has the same limits everywhere, so I suspect it's more a case of knowing how to manage it than actual tolerance for the heat. On top of that, I know several Spaniards and Italians who prefer living in Ireland because the summers are cooler, so it isn't like there's some magic gene the Irish are missing

    Except for the ability to handle 30 seconds of open sunlight without looking like a red pepper afterwards, we definitely missed that one 🥵

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,317 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    @the_amazing_raisin - "I find the lack of air conditioning in houses bizarre"

    People got used to the heat, it wasn't as hot as it is now, people avoided doing anything during the hottest hours of the day, the systems were expensive, people were poor. And had no solar PV

    A lot of that has changed now. That's why you will see more and more air conditioning at home in countries like the Netherlands. You can get a half decent portable aircon unit for €400 now incl. VAT. I reckon I'll shortly buy one myself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,232 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah I reckon you nailed it. I think management of the heat is a lot better here than back home. I remember in Spain and Italy every apartment I was ever in had shutter screens inside all the windows to allow ventilation without solar gains

    And as you say the afternoon is very quiet on the continent in summer, people sort of hide indoors out of the sun

    Historical side note, apparently the siesta in Spain isn't actually supposed to be a nap. Farmers in fields would wear a hat with a really long brim at the back and just sit with their back to the sun for an hour or so after lunch

    At least that's what the Catalonian dude I used to work with told me about his grandfather. He was very much Catalonian, I called him Spanish once and was treated to a particularly varied selection of Spanish swear words in response 🤣

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Well hot summers in France aren't new. Here's 20 years ago.

    2003 European heat wave - Wikipedia

    15,000 dead from it. Good article on France's nuclear manifest is here.

    Nuclear Power in France | French Nuclear Energy - World Nuclear Association (world-nuclear.org)

    Would be great though if some country got on board with the Thorium stuff. I know they are close, but haven't heard of a country deploying a significant level of reactors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,232 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I think EDF has sunk too much money into the EPR to give up now. If they do the exces will probably be hanged

    After seeing the total lack of rooftop solar in France I'm even less convinced about nuclear than ever. I think it just ends up blocking money that can be used for renewables which deliver much quicker and more reliably

    Remember in most heatwaves in France in the past few years that about half their reactors need to shut down because the water they're outputting to the river is too hot and causing a mass fish die off

    I think it's had it's day but beyond a few specialised applications isn't really worth the money anymore

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,317 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    @bullit_dodger - "Well hot summers in France aren't new"

    Of course they're not. Nearly every year you'd have a 40C day going back a long time. But not nearly 50C. UK and Netherlands the same, you'd have a 30C, but not the 40C they got last year. Canada went from hottest ever recorded 40C to 50C. Huge increases. Even Ireland had a 37C day last year (warmest day ever) that would have hit 40C had it not been mainly overcast that day

    And I heard maybe this year, but almost certainly next year is expected to be the hottest ever in many countries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,232 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Random side question, does anyone know what the deal is with the doubled up power lines in HV cables?

    I've noticed that on a lot of the pylons each "line" is actually two cables wutn probably a 10cm air gap between them. They're joined every few metres with a spacer, can't tell if it's insulated or a conductor (and I certainly wasn't going to try and get closer 😂)

    Is there something clever going on there like a primary and backup scenario? Or is it just a cheap way to double your capacity through the same set of pylons?

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    It's not so much "sunk money into EPR to give up on them now", but rather I think you need some nuclear in the mix, and if it's carbon free (or extremely close to carbon free) that's a win in my book. The mix is the key point there. If someone gave me a few €1b to build a power plant, all day long I'd pick wind, and then solar - but if you gave me a few €10b's to design a matix for a country's generation....then I'd have nuclear in the mix somewhere.

    People make a big deal about "ohh but the waste will turn us all into mutants, etc" or some other nonsense, but the fact is that while waste does indeed deserve thought, it's generally a well solved problem. That said, I think France are too gung-ho on nuclear. They've proved it can work, but I think they should adopt a more balanced approach.

    I spend a lot of time in france, esp in the Savoie area (alps). Over the years I've noticed a decent, but not outrageous number of PV installs. One scheme I remember reading last year. New French law will blanket parking lots with solar panels - The Washington Post

    So they aren't against renewables either. Certainly a step in the right direction from me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Actually "only" 33.1c for Ireland .... :-)

    Ireland records hottest day for 135 years as temperatures hit 33.1 degrees in Dublin – The Irish Times

    I remember that day as I took a snap on my car dashboard.

    Nuts - and yeah, as someone who's seen (1st hand) glaciers melting over the past 2 decades, it's not just the summer temps that get my attention. There's one area in Chamonix where you used to be able to ski down from the glacier, and get the lift. Now they had to install 2 additional sets of 50 steps so you can get up to the lift as where the snow used to be......all gone, and we're talking about snow that was there for 100's of years.

    Could be an El Nino coming as well

    What we know about the 2023 El Niño and its effect on weather - Vox



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    I dare say it's more capacity.

    Solar on commercial buildings have jumped here, local supermarket has them, filled the roof.

    Fish factory too, completely covered.

    feed mill has something like 200odd kw installed. And that's just the ones I've noticed



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Supervalu in Harold's cross.

    Google Earth



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,317 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    I was there in 1999. Total novice to skiing, didn't like it but me and my best mate took de cable car up the Aiguille du Midi - doing a near 3000m vertical climb - higher than any cable car in the world, was lovely thing to do with my fear of heights 😮

    Out of the cable car we walked up a few flights of steps to the platform (which got you interestingly out of breath - it is over 3800m high and he indeed skied down the glacier all the way down to the town.

    Wasn't the hottest day in Ireland for 135 years, BTW. That old "record" was near certainly a bad measurement. It was the hottest day in Ireland ever. And there was nothing in it between the official met.ie measuring stations of the Phoenix park and Baldonnel (very near where I live). You are right it was just a bit over 33C. But it felt a lot hotter than that. I have been in temps up to 45C abroad and didn't feel anywhere near as hot as this, must have been the humidity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Aiguille du Midi - that's the one alright, you ski down the valley blanche glacier, and then at the bottom you used to be able to walk up about 20-30 steps to the lift from the snowpack. Now it's something like 130 steps after they had to extend the stairway as there was no other way out for people. Here's a snap I took from the top.

    I was just over 4,000m according to my watch, but that works off atmospheric pressure, I think your figure of 3800m is closer to the truth. Same story across most of the alps. Glaciers disappearing with gusto. By the way, the walk down to the run was....."interesting" too as I recall. You drop a glove, or a ski and it's bye-bye ski ! :-)

    Yeah, I'd heard the debate about that temp reading back in 1885 being nonsense too and that the one last year is probably the hottest. I think it's academic anyway and that within the next 5-10 years (maybe even this summer for all I know) it'll be beaten again and it will remove all uncertainly. Sadly not a good thing.

    I mean statistically any record can be broken in any year, and that's just normal weather pattern. Flukes happen., but when you have the consistency of records being matched or broken, year after year.....that's something else.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,938 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    SuperValu and a very large joinery near me currently filling their entire (and very large) roofs with panels, great to see

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,232 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I remember Pavilions Swords got planning permission a couple of years to put a couple thousand solar panels on the roof. Don't think they've installed them yet though

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭paulbok


    The amount of area taken up by roof space in any country is huge. While not all of it is suitable for plastering with panels, aspect, shape, structural condition etc, there is enough to get some serious MW's onto the grid without taking up new land.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,232 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Well I think for EDF and the French government, the EPR was supposed to be the next generation reactor that would revitalise the nuclear industry

    I think it's revitalised the nuclear construction industry, not so much the generation industry 😂

    So that's why I regard it as a sunk cost, not just financially but politically. If the project fails then it'll probably kill any chance of the French exporting their nuclear design and expertise for a long while yet

    I agree that given a design for a large scale energy grid (something Europe sized, not our tiny Irish grid) then nuclear will inevitably form part of the mix. Hence my comment about how it's more suited to stickier areas when renewables can't do the job

    However, if I were choosing where to invest my money in power generation, and the choice is renewables or nuclear, then as long as the answer for renewables being suitable is anywhere between "yes" and "barely" the I'd pick renewables every time

    IMO even a poorly optimised renewables generator is better because the cost of installation and construction timeline are much lower

    Also, one a side note, I managed to find the webpage showing outages in the French grid. Might be interesting to see how much downtime is involved with nuclear

    There was several reactor's offline for planned maintenance over the last few months from the looks of it

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    The link I gave previously (here it is again) has all those details you were looking for.

    Nuclear Power in France | French Nuclear Energy - World Nuclear Association (world-nuclear.org)

    I think it mentioned 60% or their abouts for capacity factor along with what plants are doing maintenance (2nd page or so). I also noted this section which is interesting.

    n October 2014 the Energy Transition for Green Growth bill was passed by the National Assembly and so went onto the Senate. This set a target of 50% for nuclear contribution to electricity supply by 2025, and capped nuclear power capacity at 63.2 GWe, the level at the time. This meant that EDF would have to shut at least 1650 GWe of nuclear capacity when its Flamanville 3 EPR starts commercial operation. The bill also set long-term targets to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 40% by 2030 compared with 1990 levels, and by 75% by 2050; to halve final energy consumption by 2050 compared with 2012 levels; to reduce fossil fuel consumption by 30% by 2030 relative to 2012; and to increase the share of renewables in final energy consumption to 32% by 2030.

    So they do plan on reducing nuclear. It's sort of a tough call for France on one side. They are perhaps one of the few countries in Europe who's actually got a good CO2 story even today. Nuclear is 63%, hydro 11% and wind/solar another 15%., so upwards of 85% clean power. While I don't necessarily agree with it.....I can get in behind the thinking that why rip apart our existing ecosystem if what we have is giving us good clean power.

    Ultimately the market will decide. Renewables are so cheap now that it's hard to argue against them, although there is a lot to be gained from 20-30% of base load covered by a steady eddy like a nuclear reactor.

    But hey, fusion is only "10-20 years away" now. (LOL - I head that 40 years ago)



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Fusion 10-20 years away? 😂

    Large offshore wind is 10-20 yrs away.. and we know how to build that already

    I mean, from planning "we want to build a large farm in the Atlantic, to being fully operational and complete"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    That's the joke isn't it? "Fusion is ALWAYS 10-20 years away" .... :-)


    (PDF) How Many Years Away is Fusion Energy? A Review (researchgate.net)



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,317 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    The latest Chinese wind generators already in production are 18MW, a single wind farm off the west coast with just 350 or so of these would generate Ireland's entire current electricity consumption. We should really decide to get about 1000 of these installed in 3 phases ASAP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    There's a "magic number" for what the right size turbine to get .... verses wind speed at location, accessibility (installing ease etc). Could be that those mega jobbies aren't the best for us - they could be, just saying. The main thing though is to get capacity installed whatever the size of the individual turbines. On that front we're doing better than i thought....

    Nearly tripled in 10 years. That's decent - but more to go!



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,317 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Ireland has one of the highest capacity factors for wind in the world at 50% at most of the west coast. These biggest size turbines are perfect, as the bigger they are, the cheaper they are per kWh



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Yeah - bigger is better on many factors. Less connections, less maintenance, greater sweep area, but what I was saying above is that there's a lot of variables to factor. The issue is often one of accesibility. The west of Ireland as you know has many a "small boreen" not exactly conductive to transporting 200m turbine blades, though villages, under bridges or up the side of a hill. Once they are cast they can't be dismantled as they are one piece of carbon fiber generally, so there is that too. They are fairly unwieldy.

    Time Lapse Video Of Giant Wind Turbine Blade At Galway Harbour (afloat.ie)

    (729) Owenwinny Wind Farm - Turbine Blade Transport January 2023 - YouTube

    That said, I'd LOVE to see some of those puppies in play in Ireland.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,317 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    They should never even reach land. Straight shipped by boat from wherever it was manufactured to the site in the ocean where it will be erected.



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