Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

You are spinning again francie. There are no unionist MPs in 2023 going to commemorations of any individuals whose Clain to fame is killing Catholics. There is no equal in our community. They would not get votes

The BA killed 32 children who were all Catholics, do Unionists go to commemorations of the BA?

Did Unionist politicians support Hutchins and Cleary?

Do Unionist politicians routinely meet and seek the opinion of still active paramilitaries as stakeholders?

Have Unionist politicians even begun to apologise for what they orchestrated and the paramilitary groups they began and were involved in?

Have Unionists politicians ever made a single conciliatory gesture on an island where they refuse to admit they were born?

if I recall I said she was targeted because she helped a soldier - something all but the most evil physcopaths would do. So again we can see we were all legitimate targets.

I copied and pasted a quote from a paper. Maybe it was before this Ira admission. Could you give us a link to the Ira admission??

I was asking wat all contributed to her murder. Her family are in no doubt that the allegations surfacing decades after her murder about her passing info to army is absolutely untrue and simply them trying to justify the unjustifiable.

now you have tried to exaggerate what I was saying about her being a prod. The Ira hated anyone living in ‘their areas’ who they could not trust. She was a blow in from Protestant east Belfast. She had family connections in the security forces. They couldn’t trust her. She then helped a dying soldier - possibly due to her naïveté from being reared a prod in east Belfast, where that is obviously what you would do.

I didn’t claim, and I am unsure, whether her background had anything to do with her murder.

I am not sure how many women the IRA took away and murdered, but I can’t think of another one - so it is, at the least, a huge coincidence if tens of thousands of catholic reared women lived in west Belfast and they selected one of a minuscule number of Protestant reared women for probably their most horrific and public execution of a mother.

so I was asking legitimate questions, but you want to just accept the IRAs story as gospel, and that’s up to you.

Remember it was Gerry who wasn’t in the IRA who didn’t organise this killing!

edit - just reading your link now. Remarkable that you are prepared to accept a cock and bull story about her informing when even the police umbudsman says it was not true “Others claimed she was an informer, but this was dismissed after an official investigation by the Northern Ireland Police Ombudsman.”

Its also interesting that you seem to think that her background would be an unusual reason for the Ira to kill someone!

I was at a series of talks organised by our brilliant county museum this morning

One of the speakers was talking about the displacement of people along the border. He made the point that there was a lot of exaggeration that had grown legs and which became part of the ongoing narrative of victimhood.

He heavily researched two particular cases, that of Jim Allister's(TUV) family, who come from Monaghan originally and the family of Ernest Baird (Ulster Vanguard) in Donegal, he could find no evidence at all for their claims of being 'run out or burned out of their homes south of the new border.

To have been burned out or run out (and some undeniably were) was a badge of honour among northern Unionists so it is easy to see why stories grew legs, he said.

The same thing happens with these few unfortunate and tragic victims, deliberately trotted out and exploited because they can be made to fit a certain narrative.

As you say Fionn the strong likelihood is that she was suspected of being an informer and was given the same treatment other informers got. Her death and disappearance makes no sense otherwise. It was a time of particular chaos and paranoia, nobody trusted anyone. It doesn't condone it, it was fundamentally wrong as was all the violence.

What’s disgusting about researching to find the truth about something?

Mythmaking obscures the truth. It should always be challenged by facts.

Facts downcow.

There are none to support the stories of some people. Allister and Baird in these particular instances.

Mythmaking doesn’t just affect Unionism, nobody is saying that.

I’m interested in truth, not just on my own side but on all sides.

You seem interested in holding on to your myths like the one you believed about the teaching of Irish, or about some victims and now about Allister and Baird.

Dr Edward Burke, the speaker, is the pre-eminent scholar on the period and the border. He is publishing a book shortly you might be interested in - ‘Loyalists in Ulster’s ‘Lost Counties’ and Legacies of 1922’. He was allowed access to the archives of the Ulster Special Constabulary (A, B, & C Specials) for it. Sounds fascinating.

That was when the State rightfully claimed all of Ireland as the National territory.

The fact is and the reality is, that the 'Southern Ireland' State is obviously not Ireland - it is merely in Ireland, and it should not be erroneously calling itself Ireland, and lying that Ireland regained it freedom. If idiots are misled to believe Ireland already regained its freedom - how is Ireland actually and in reality going to regain its freedom?

I would go so far as to say, and I include the plebs in Leinster House in this (the same plebs who call the 26 county Southern Ireland 'House of Commons' by the name of the 32 county Dail Eireann), that anyone who refers to Ireland who intentionally excludes counties Derry, Down, Armagh, Antrim. Fermanagh and Tyrone, is a traitor to Ireland.

As for the foreign ethnic British Unionists (what they call themselves in census) objecting to anything in Ireland - we should not be pandering to their B.S. Pandering to Unionists B.S, is why Ireland is artificially partitioned in the first instance.

Tit for tat says your one who tries to turn a story about 16 Catholic victims into a Protestant pity tale, and still refuses to make a single comment about how Loyalists ran Jean McConville out of where she was living.

Disgusting indeed.

The irony today in the occupied 6 counties is that the foreign ethnic British Unionists (as they describe themselves in census) are now only a majority in 2 (TWO) of the 6 occupied counties of Ireland - meaning 30 of the 32 counties of Ireland have a majority of native Irish people. 

 So why are Irish people still being denied real democracy and self-determination in our own country in this day and age???

 Britain needs to leave Ireland once and for all - we native Irish people do not want Britain interfering in the affairs of Ireland - we NEVER did. 

No you are trying to spin what I said. I stand by my belief that someone reared as a Protestant in east Belfast who married a catholic soldier. Soldier then dies and this person has still contact with her family which contains RUC officers. And you are telling me that she would be trusted and regarded the same as wee Bernie living in the flat above? Catch yourself on.

If you are correct and he is accepting that she would be regarded differently by the Ira due to her prod upbringing, then I misunderstood him and I apologise

Agree completely with both Sam and fionn last posts

I'm a Fermanagh native, talking about glory in the All Ireland is highly insensitive!