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Has President Higgins overstepped the mark?

  • 17-06-2023 11:05pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,938 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog



    Interesting is one way to put it. Looks to me like this is a blatant and deliberate overreach outside the limitations of his powers as President in to politics.

    Both he and his wife have been flying close to the sun the last couple of years in some of their commentary. Think there'll be fallout this time.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Notmything


    He's making it harder to have rational debate on defence policy.

    There's a narrative out there that suggests any discussion on defence or military means we're about to join NATO.

    In reality we need to have a long hard look at developing closer defence ties with our fellow EU members, and the UK



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    He’s been doing this for years without any complaints from the government.

    It would be a bit rich if they started moaning now….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,938 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Guaranteed the government will be absolutely furious with this interference and they have every right to be

    Firstly he's gone way beyond his prescribed ceremonial role

    Secondly he's criticised in public here the government's upcoming forum on Ireland's defence.

    How could the government possibly call a referendum on anything now knowing the President could make such comments on whatever issue it is in advance?

    This is not his role.

    I don't see how the government can let it slide this time.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Totally agree. I find his lecturing on the housing market fairly nauseating knowing how he sold the student gaff to ensure he got a tax break but they did little at that time or at any other time he commented so now they will have to grin and bear it as he cuts their nuts off in foreign affairs topics. LOL



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,081 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    I see that the President of Young Fine Gael has said that he is "a thundering disgrace" - ouch!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,044 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Yes.

    And not for the 1st time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭iffandonlyif


    Much like Mary Lou McDonald, I cannot understand how a significant proportion of this country does not recognise his naked self-importance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,480 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    He is the opposite of Zelensky.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,214 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    There will be a nice hamper of Caviar and Polugar Vodka going to the Aras as a gift from Yuri Filatov.


    Solidarity is a 2 way street.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Meh . . . Sone government politicians have less than 5000 first preference votes. Literally millions vored for MDH.

    All of the usual FF/FG crazies will always get upset . . . .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,214 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    So only you and Mary Lou are in the same boat?


    I think it is more than just yourselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,376 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Nobody gives a shyte about the baby blue shirts. Yer man is self promoting.

    But he's not wrong. I think this an egregious overstep by the President. I think he must have known that it would be but said it anyway. And I think it's so bad that he may have to leave office over it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,376 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    This is absolutely correct. It plays to the false conflation of these things by the far left.

    Completely irresponsible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,214 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    I don't think people would get excited about it that much now, a reflection on the times rather than the context.


    30 years ago there would be a chapter written about the fall out.



    He is way outside his boundary and not for the first time, making pronouncements that will bewilder Kyiv and comfort the Kremlin.


    He may see himself as a Socialist first and second but the role he is in has conditions, responsibilities and he is answerable to Ireland rather than Moscow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    If you look up the definition of “champagne socialist” in the dictionary in the future you’ll see a pic of Miggledy there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Promoting NATO and undermining neutrality is the only overreach. Higgins on this occasion is correct. Ending neutrality is Treasonous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    No we don't. There should be no military ties with either the so-called "EU" or the so-called "UK".



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The UK and EU are our next door neighbours. We have diplomatic, business and military connections with them all already and are on friendly terms with all of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,040 ✭✭✭✭Del2005



    The electorate for a Dail seat and the president are a bit different in size.

    He got 55% 1st preference votes for him to do a ceremonial job as the president at the last election.

    Most quotas for a Dail seat in the last election were between 10,000 to 12,000, the lowest quota was ~6k and the highest was just over 13k. Getting nearly half the quota of first preference votes in our PRSTV system is good, there are a lot more candidates for a Dail seat.

    Micheal getting ~50% is good, but a TD getting ~50% is bad!

    If he wanted to make political statements he should have ran for the Dail or Seanad. Oh wait didn't he quit that in 2011 to run for a ceremonial job instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Killinator


    Go on then, explain exactly how ending neutrality (which is not a legally binding policy and only decided by any given government in power at any given time here) is treasonous.

    You may point to any legislation or otherwise that might point out same.....

    Alternatively you may realise that Ireland's 'neutrality' policy has been fairly fluid depending on the needs of the country or scale of conflict surrounding us.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    I'm not friendly with any of those - speak for yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Because it is an assault on the sovereignty and unity of the 32 County Irish Republic, and is intended to undermine Irish independence and self-governance. Membership of the so-called "EU" is equally Treasonous.





  • So the UK and EU are “so called “ and the 32CIR is a current entity? Please elaborate

    How is membership of the EU treasonous? We voted for it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,649 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    Ah jaysus.

    By that logic, was voting for the GFA also treasonous?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    By making these kinds of blathering comments, Higgins is betraying the office he was sworn to uphold.

    Rather than remaining neutral, Higgins is coming down hard on issues that just happen to be in his own personal sphere of interest. He committed the same offense when it came to housing. Higgins needs to accept that he's a president, not a party political leader with a manifesto to pursue.

    Higgins needs to do what presidents are supposed to do: to shut up, maintain a dignified silence, and act as a respectable figurehead for the country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10 shedhappy


    The fact that, after the death of Cuba's communist dictator, Higgins flew out there to attend his funeral, says it all for me. Adios Michael D!



  • Posts: 2,725 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    He has an absolutely enormous temper so I’d imagine his staff can’t be bothered telling him what’s appropriate and not. You’d imagine he thinks he knows best anyway; he was a lecturer in a university and all that.

    When you peel back all the layers Michael D believes that the USSR and Communism was the good side, and NATO and US are the bad guys.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,325 ✭✭✭howiya


    I'm no fan of Michael D but I suspect we'll arrive at the usual position once the initial outcry has subsided after one of his speeches...

    From an article last time round.

    "While the President’s remarks this week didn’t strictly break any rules, experts say, it may represent an “overstepping of the mark” and breaking with precedent."

    Another Article by Eoin O'Malley at the time of the housing speech made reference to Articles 13.7.2 and 13.7.3 of the Constitution.

    If he has breached those he should resign in my opinion. One would presume an interview with a newspaper would have to follow correct protocol whereas I can see how remarks at a charity event might escape from the rigours of protocol.

    That should be the question. Has the government approved the message as per 13.7.3? If not why not and what to do they intend to do about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Higgins cannot hide his hatred for America, and NATO would be an American military enforcer in his eyes, his love for despotic murderous communist dictator's over the years, is plain to see, all of whom would have been at loggerheads with NATO



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The EU is not our next door neighbour.


    We ARE the EU



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,462 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    We should have a United Ireland, and then sell to the US and become the 51st state of American. Then we'd be safe from everyone 😎



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,630 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Yep that's the way it's going.

    Our neutrality is something that we should absolutely cherish. We're only independent for 100 years, let's not give other countries any more control of our foreign policy.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,938 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    On NATO he says in the article "We're better than that"

    Better than what? Every country in NATO?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,630 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Maybe there was more context in his speech and article than your eloquent but simplistic post/question.

    I personally would be disgusted if we joined NATO.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,857 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Higgins has been overstepping the mark for years and the politicians say nothing , shuffle along, ignore him - he’s like the embarrassing senile auld uncle that everyone smiles and nods at.

    The Sooner the original champagne socialist leaves the Aras, the better



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,857 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    since he’s been in the job he’s been getting fatter by the day - living high on the hog all on the Irish taxpayers dollar. Nauseating.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,630 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I love to see FIne Gaelers nauseated. Wait until the next election! 😂

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,857 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    I’m not a FGer. I intensely dislike them, so try again...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,630 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Apologies, I mixed you up with another fanboy. Perhaps you wanted the Dragons Den lad to become president?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,714 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Because they’re spineless as regards calling him out on it. It’s the world todsy. Everyones afraid to upset!!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭Ramasun


    Another reason to think Putin is an idiot.

    Ireland joining NATO was a laughable suggestion only two years ago.

    It won't happen unless there's something drastic like an invasion of an EU country or an attack on trans-atlantic communications cables. Territorial defence is something Irish people haven't had to think about for a long time.

    Micheal D's opinion on NATO is still generally shared by most people but he might be the last head of state to stick their nose into the conversation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Killinator


    Right, so you're living on another planet, Would have been just easier to say that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,630 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    It's still a laughable suggestion. We should cherish our neutrality and there is absolutely no credible threat to our territory from Putin or any other crazy leader.

    I think any referendum would be completely rejected. 95%+.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    He’s been overstepping his remit and treating the office he holds with contempt for years , what’s funny is apparently some people only noticed it now , can’t stand the insufferable windbag but this is nothing new and a bit late to be appalled now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    It’s possible to both oppose joining NATO and also believe in a defence policy befitting an adult nation, we have a child’s approach and attitude to defence



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    I’ve never voted for anyone but an Independent 1+2 and I’m 58.

    If Higgins and his wine loving wife sauntering into the Coronation of King Charles in Westminster Abbey dressed to the knocker having left their very expensive pet dogs to be cared for by minions is your version of “socialism” then I have a bridge here that you might like to buy,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,630 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I voted Independent for the past 2 elections. Catherine Connolly TD. I am 51. I have never given Labour a #1. Usually FFG folks hate Higgins. He robbed the FF bagman in the first election and FG have never won a presidential election.

    Bertie is up next so he will behave himself and all will be good. Less intellectual.

    The 2 Marys were well able to offer opinions but they had to be quiet about it because they were silly women...😉

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭Shelga


    I can’t read the full article as it’s paywalled, but what exactly is the mechanism by which we would “drift into” NATO? Does anyone really think that’s going to happen unless a majority of the electorate want it, which is a minuscule possibility at this point?

    It seems to me like he doesn’t even want us talking about it. I’m so sick of him abusing the office to stick his beak in on issues which do not concern the office of the president. We can discuss whatever we like, while a murderous dictator invades a country and slaughters thousands, on our continent.

    He’s become truly insufferable the last few years, IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    He has quite overstepped and should have his wings severely clipped and/or be relieved of his position.



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