Bollards Along Country Roads - Insurance Liabilities

shedhappy · 18-06-2023 2:04pm #1

Who pays if my car hits and is damaged by one of those, what I term, 'bollards', homeowners erect alongside their roadside parking strips?

Planing authorities require these - at least in rural areas, but most people seem to erect sometimes very solid obstacles to prevent vehicle parking or turning.

Their shape and styles have almost become an art form with some interlinked with decorative chains!

Councils appear to have ignored this development though it obviously flouts Planning rules.

Would like to know if there were any Court judgements in this matter.

banie01 · 18-06-2023 2:09pm

You are asking who pays for the damage you incur, if you hit an obstacle that is adjacent to a road?

An obstacle that you need to leave the carriageway to hit? Or are there homeowners placing bollards on the roadway that are causing you issue?

shedhappy · 18-06-2023 2:15pm

Council rules that no pole or other obstacle can be closer than 1 metre from the edge of the carriageway. But unless there are edge markings the distance an be indistinct. Most of these bollards would be in the 1 metre OK but on narrow roads - eg, giving cyclists the 1.5 m clearance, one could easily clip one of these yokes.

banie01 · 18-06-2023 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730225#Comment_120730225

If you are giving a cyclist 1.5mtrs? And you hit a bollard on the opposite side of the roadway? Why are you overtaking when there is clearly no space to carry out the manoeuvre safely?

If you are unable to ascertain where the edge of the roadway is? Why would you hug the edge of the roadway rather than keep towards right of your lane?

I am trying to see why you believe any liability accrues to the owner of a roadside bollard, installed in accordance with whatever planning was granted?

Versus your positive choice of road position and attention to obstacles that you would have to fail on to hit an immobile object not in the carriageway.

db · 18-06-2023 2:36pm

These are not roadside parking areas. They are required so there is adequate sight lines when exciting the property. This space is within the boundary of the property and just because the wall or hedge is set back does not mean it is part of the carriageway.

banie01 · 18-06-2023 2:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730307#Comment_120730307

Ah man,why did you jump straight to the end, with your facts and common sense 😁

shedhappy · 18-06-2023 2:57pm

To banie01

Q1: Can I take it that you have 'bollards' along your 'sightline' enabling strips?

Q2: How would one get planning approval to erect 'bollards' along the above mentioned strips?

Q3: Do you often travel on L roads - some less than 4 metres wide?

banie01 · 18-06-2023 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730369#Comment_120730369

Q1. No

Q2. More often than not bollards are a condition of planning imposed by county road engineers.

Q3. You overtake cyclists giving 1.5mtr space on 4mtr wide L roads? The issue isn't with bollard placement. It's with poor driving choices and frankly dangerous driving.

Take a standard hatchback on your 4mtr wide L road with the cyclist you "have" to overtake. Your car is 1.8mtrs wide, you give the cyclist 1.5mtrs. you still have 0.7mtrs before reaching the edge. So undertaking the manoeuvre as described on a 4 MTR wide road still leaves you room to complete it safely without crossing the edge, or even further with the 1mtr setback for the bollard.

Now the long and the short of it is DB's reply above.

I would add however that if you hit a stationary object that is not in the roadway as part of undertaking a manoeuvre? It is entirely the fault of the driver. Awareness of the road and its surroundings and hazards is a driver's responsibility.

Marcusm · 18-06-2023 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058301374/bollards-along-country-roads-insurance-liabilities

To hit them you would have to stray onto their private property and hit it. They have occupiers liability to avoid creating hazards but in the vast majority of cases, these are very obvious. It’s no different to hitting a wall, if they are not deliberately or negligently obscured, it would be your responsibility.

Marcusm · 18-06-2023 4:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730225#Comment_120730225

That provides an obligation on the road maintainer to ensure its edge is 1m back from the private property not the other way around!

Stark · 18-06-2023 4:32pm

I'd be curious to see a street view link to these bollards the OP is talking about though I suspect the answer to the liability question is the same.

kirving · 19-06-2023 1:18pm

I posted something similar recently.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058257406/roadside-verge-duty-of-care

I'm going to pick on this house below, because even though I only pass by weekly, the owner of the property seems to regularly leaves their gate open and lets their dog run around the road. I've had to bring it in on more than one occasion with zero thanks.

The also think it's acceptable to dump a few blocks (since replace with bricks) out on the verge to make absolute **** of any car who's driver dares to give a tractor a bit of extra room, or you know, stop to bring their loose dog. Charming. I won't be stopping again I'll tell you.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4712644,-8.3015829,3a,41.8y,247.46h,72.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swCEXA1rNbNxMHx29YR7rxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Another example I just happen to know, not poles of course, but I have seen cases where (black) poles are erected closer to the yellow line, and could reasonably present a hazard to cyclists.

NUTLEY BOY · 21-06-2023 11:33am

I have always understood that there is a strict liability on a party that creates a hazard in or on the highway.

Are the frontages OP refers to the property of the householder or are they the property of the local authority ?

Benmann · 21-06-2023 3:03pm

https://www.ireland-live.ie/news/nenagh-live/1199679/tipperary-councillors-raise-concerns-over-people-using-stones-as-barriers-outside-houses.html

Is this what you mean OP?

AlanG · 21-06-2023 3:10pm

Strictly speaking I believe the person who put them there would be liable if they are not well marked and there is a reasonable expectation someone may be on the land. After all landowners can be found laibel if a criminal on their own property trips over a badly placed hazard.

It is likely to be down to the judge on the day and you could risk a lot of costs if you cant proove who put it there.

If the land is public, then the local council could have a duty of care if it had been reported as an obstruction impacting the carriageway.

shedhappy · 26-06-2023 9:17pm

Now yer talkin -

I'm the 'OP' (btw what does that translate as?) that started this off and some respondents sounded like they didn't understand what I was on about and one as much as suggested reckless "dangerous driving" by me or other madskulls might actually be the problem. (B*l***s)

'Good on Tipperary Council' is my finale.

Cheers & beers

Victor · 10-07-2023 10:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730393#Comment_120730393

Remember that the cyclist has a non-zero width.

banie01 · 10-07-2023 10:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120832760#Comment_120832760

Very true, an oversight on my part in counting the cyclist as within the 1.5mtr leeway owed them, rather than as a defined area +1.5mtr

Bollards Along Country Roads - Insurance Liabilities

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