Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

Fionn I am sorry to revisit this. Buy pure coincidence this afternoon my Scottish son-in-law put on episode 2 of this highly acclaimed series running on bbc.

this is a hard watch for all sides as the naked sectarian is exposed. This series covers the Shankill butchers, bloody Friday and Jean McConville. Her son is interviewed at length with deep emotion. He never once mentions her being ‘run out’ by loyalists but he does say that “of course it was sectarian, a Protestant woman murdered by the IRA, how is that not sectarian”. He also said the Ira made up the informer tale to cover their embarrassment when they had to admit they had murdered her after years of denials.

my quote is not verbatim but as close as I can remember if you think I am misrepresenting it I will get verbatim

here is the programme An amazing watch I think.

why this is important in the wider debate is that some republicans on here are trying to feed people in the south with a very one sided narrative I hope rte by this series off bbc

Francie. I have dropped it. Watch the programme of her son and granddaughter. It will help you move forward. I wouldn’t be defending anyone in this terrible tragedy.

I’m done with it. Back on topic.

I never once suggested she hadn’t been intimidated by both sides sectarian gangs. But I’m not arguing anymore about. It’s just another sad house resulting from the sectarian blood bath. I won’t let you suck me in to reply on this again. If you want to know my position, there is nothing in that horrendous programme that I disagree with.

I don't understand what this adds to the conversation at all, Downcow. I'll certainly give it a watch, but the basic premise that a Protestant woman was murdered by the IRA is already wrong, as we've discussed at length she wasn't a Protestant woman. None of The Disappeared were Protestant. It still desperately sounds like you're trying to turn a tragedy into a Protestant victim story.

With the greatest of respect to her son, one would hardly expect him to be able to take a reasoned view on things. If she was an informer, he's hardly going to say so and offer any sort of justification (no matter how much we both disagree with it) for his mother's death. If she wasn't an informer, you'd hardly expect someone who's mother has been murdered by a group to take their reasoning as gospel for why they did it.

Her being run out by Loyalist absolutely isn't up for debate though, no matter how much you're trying to dodge it.

As for what anyone is feeding anyone, we both have very one sided views Downcow, they're forged by our own personal experiences. You're as unlikely to understand what it was like being hassled by the RUC or British Army on a regular basis as I am to understand fearing the Provos.

Sam made a fair point, whatever the constitutional destination of NI, we both need to get better at moving on.

You will side with the son who just didn’t talk about it and ignore the daughter actually talking about it.

downcow that is pathetic tbh. If holding on to a narrative is at such an obvious expense of the truth Unionism is sunk.

Again and again you are confronted with facts and you show zero willingness to accept them.

Jamie Bryson was caught on camera this weekend with a paramilitary leader at a UVF commemoration and he is attacking the source of the truth too. Maybe it didn’t happen if he can successfully shoot the messenger.

Hear another ‘cost of a United ireland’.

there is a deep history of both communities in ni fighting to beat fascism etc. much of unionist culture and identity is focused around this fight and protecting liberty. To suggest that ni would unite with a country wanting to be neutral would be crazy

and for the shinners to suggest that in a Ui we could defend ourselves in an ‘ourselves alone’ mentality. What planet are they on?

What the hell is wrong with you?

Tragedy: an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress, such as a serious accident, crime, or natural catastrophe.

In what world is describing the events around Jean McConville as a tragedy downplaying anything?

There is no, 'just' a tragedy, just you going out of your way to look for ways to be offended. You're making an absolute fool of yourself.

"the events around Jean McConville as a tragedy"

The language we use is important. It wasn't mere events, it wasn't just a tragedy. It was much much more than that. It was one of the most despicable terrorist actions of the PIRA terrorist campaign. The kidnapping, torture, killing and burying in the bog of a mother, killed because she was different, killed because she wouldn't lie down for the terrorists. You buy tickets to see events. Was the rape of Mairia Cahill another event?

Do republicans not understand that they have to see the damage they have caused, to understand the terror and hurt they imposed in the name of Irish nationalism, to atone and apologise properly, completely and unreservedly for it, adopt the language of their victims and until they do the objective they want - a united Ireland - is unachievable?

Well the tweet would suggest the shinners are needing to state their position as different.

The Royal Irish are deep in the hearts and phsycie of a huge number of northeners. If you intend disbanding them you are up for a squabble

Huge is debatable, Downcow. I'd say a pretty small but quite vocal minority give even half a toss about them.

Their connections to the UDR automatically alienate a huge chunk of the population.

I really don't get how you think a regiment only in existence since 1992 live deep in the heart and psyche of a huge number of anyone, unless you're referring to the Royal Irish Rangers, who haven't existed in 30 years, Royal Irish Fusiliers, who haven't existed for over 50 or the Royal Irish Rifles who weren't called the Royal Irish for over 100 years and also haven't existed in over 50 years.

Ironic that you'd argue so fervently against protection for the Irish language while demanding respect for a regiment who have the (badly anglicised) motto, 'faugh a ballagh' though.

Most importantly to your point though, as part of the British Army, any new Irish state would hardly be able to disband them.

Says exactly what I just said. Founded in 1992, includes the UDR.

Stood on the side of peace during the Troubles? The Stephens Inquiries and list of incidents in which UDR members colluded with Loyalist Paramilitaries makes that a bit difficult to stomach. That's the history that your government decided to amalgamate into that of the regiment that you love so much.

I do have to admit to a personal interest in the regiment beyond that of your average Nationalist, (though that interest was mostly sparked by the fictional Patrick Harper from the Sharpe series), so I am being a bit facetious with the '92 jibes, but when was the last time you spoke to someone under 60 if you think nothing gets a room of people going quite like Killaloe?

You know most younger folk have moved on? Tens of thousands of them are having a much better time at Belsonic over the last while, not sitting with old fogies listening to Killaloe.

The transfer of the regimental HQ may not be a big deal for you, but it would be a significant symbolic issue for many people in the North on both sides.