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Has President Higgins overstepped the mark?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    So to start

    I am not a fan of the president and I am in favour of neutrality. (Though I also believe we should have a respected and well funded defense force).

    I think he overstepped.

    During the presidential debates we were all told that the president has little to no political role and that whom ever is put in place is there as representative of all the people, if we go by the current president we must insure that proper public political debates happen, not the wishy-washy stuff we saw in 2018 and 2011.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,471 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Don't even get the neutrality thing,what does it matter?

    Doubt we're going to attack anyone,and if there is a war is these parts our neutrality won't count for shoite.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭boetstark




  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,480 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    And exactly which clause of the constitution says the president can't express his opinion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    A neutral country could attack another country, unlikely BTF, neutrality is do with if we part take in other country's wars.

    We could surround Rockall with the Irish navy if we really wanted, it would still make us neutral but kind of a waste of manpower considering we only have six ships.

    We need to invest regardless of how you feel about neutrality, IMO Irish governments have view neutrality as away of ignoring Defense spending. Sweden has

    7 corvettes

    9 mine countermeasure vessel

    5 diesel submarines

    14 patrol vessels

    165 Gunboats


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,563 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    I don't understand the big NATO debate, sure don't Irish forces already work with NATO missions, and have been for years.

    We clearly have deals with other countries regarding defences etc. What's the big deal with neutrality? We allow other countries to use our facilities etc. We are not neutral and our constitution doesn't say we are.

    But the president did overstep I believe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,258 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    From the constitution..

    ARTICLE 28

    1 The Government shall consist of not less than seven and not more than fifteen members who shall be appointed by the President in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution.

    2 The executive power of the State shall, subject to the provisions of this Constitution, be exercised by or on the authority of the Government.

    3     1° War shall not be declared and the State shall not participate in any war save with the assent of Dáil Éireann.

    2° In the case of actual invasion, however, the Government may take whatever steps they may consider necessary for the protection of the State, and Dáil Éireann if not sitting shall be summoned to meet at the earliest practicable date.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Killinator


    The big deal is we get to pretend we are better than all those other countries while relying on them for help.when needed.

    It's hypocrisy, plain and simple



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,187 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Irish forces are deployed as part of UN peacekeeping, not NATO



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,563 ✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,843 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    "In all seriousness, there are very few arguments against joining NATO now."

    That's complete nonsense. There are very few arguments to join NATO. Ye are clutching.

    Honestly who do you think will possibly invade Ireland over the next 100 years? Be honest now. Don't say Russia because that is ludicrous with no credible reason, besides they have utterly embarassed and exposed themselves in Ukraine and are a laughing stock (as well as war criminals). Just name one country and say why. Just a single country.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,187 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Irelands commitment to KFOR was only due to the UNSC resolution on peacekeeping as part of KFOR back in 1999.

    A NATO mission in which a plurality of participants are not NATO members or NATO affiliated - the UN backing is a far bigger decider for the non-NATO members such as Ireland.

    Ireland doesnt work 'for' or 'with' NATO. Military deployments are based on decisions of the United Nations.

    You tried to equate Ireland participation in KFOR as us being basically members of NATO, or that there is no big deal in the difference between status quo and full NATO membership. Disingenuous nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,161 ✭✭✭hoodie6029


    Pity we didn’t elect Martin McGuinness in 2011, there’d be none of this now…

    This is water. Inspiring speech by David Foster Wallace https://youtu.be/DCbGM4mqEVw?si=GS5uDvegp6Er1EOG



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,563 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    If Ireland work on, or with, or for any NATO missions or in close proximity beside or whatever with any NATO missions, what's the big deal. We do it.

    ' NATO mission in which a plurality of participants are not NATO members or NATO affiliated - the UN backing is a far bigger decider for the non-NATO members such as Ireland.'

    and what does this mean? Because of a unsc resolution it's ok for us to work on NATO missions? That's disingenuous!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 653 ✭✭✭cheese sandwich


    Article 13.9. The clear precedent adhered to by all previous holders of the office was to avoid making any comment on matters of political controversy, and certainly avoid being seen to criticise the government of the day.

    But Higgins thinks he’s better than that. And he’s created carte blanche for any future president to mouth off about whatever hobby horse concerns him or her. Not that the cheerleaders of MDH seem to be aware of that, or care.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,187 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    You tried to imply that we already work with NATO in the same way as if we were actual members of the alliance - that assertion was totally false.

    There was no alliance obliging us to intervene in the balkans, or obliging us to participate in KFOR. We did so of our own volition after the UNSC resolution for peacekeeping.

    The difference between 13 irish soldiers in KFOR and Ireland being a member of NATO is night and day. There is no way you can equate the 2 situations as "whats the big deal with Ireland joining NATO, shur Ireland has been working with NATO for years".

    Being a member of NATO is a million miles away from volunteering for KFOR



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,563 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    I never implied anything, I merely expressed an opinion that it's no big deal when we already work with NATO anyway.

    The 13 soldiers were once a few hundred of course.

    We work with other forces, we facilitate other forces here in our own country. Neutrality doesn't really exist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,187 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Can you explain how participating in a UNSC sanctioned peacekeeping mission in Kosovo hinders our neutrality?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,072 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    You can have opinions either way on NATO or whatever but this type of stuff he knows he shouldn't be saying.


    The President referred to Prof Richardson as a person “with a very large DBE – Dame of the British Empire”, adding that it was “grand” but “I think that there were a few candidates I could have come up with myself”.

    Who the hell is he to be making statements like that?

    As for those on the left who can't see the issue here - what goes around comes around - and when there is someone as President you don't agree with then don't even try complain given the precedent set by this one.

    I repeat my point how could any government hold a referendum or consultation on anything if they know such a President might make such interventions? It doesn't matter whether you're left or right - it disrupts the work of the government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,563 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    It doesn't. But that just shows how we can work with/in/on NATO missions pretending we don't.....

    We don't have neutrality, given that we allow other forces to use our country in their conflicts.

    Neutrality isn't a constitutional thing anyway, it doesn't really exist. Ireland just doesn't get involved officially when they don't feel like it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,705 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Just heard he has apologised to Prof. Richardson.

    His remarks about her were wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,471 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Cheeky brat.

    She's a Dame due to her charity work apparently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,877 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Higgins should resign.

    He and his wife are an embarrassment and have been for a number of years now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,877 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    The wife has been seen “in high spirits” at various events over the past while.

    Laughing and Falling around the place in front of the world’s media during the Biden visit too. Not good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,072 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I also think he should resign for that comment alone. He has debased the office. 20 years a go he would have had to resign but there are no standards these days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    I do not see why a person associating herself with the British Empire should be given a role in independent Ireland.

    Being in Britain is not a problem, but if you associated yourself with the order of slavery or the order of the Third Reich then you would not be acceptable so why should someone voluntarily associating themselves with the British Empire than have that association highlighted?

    As fro Higgins, what does postitive neutrality mean? If the guy next door is beating his wife and she calls out, do you shout over the fence that you are positively neutral and that you will invite them both in for a nice cup of tea?

    The lefties had no problem with a biased convention before the abortion referendum which mainly heard from people promoting abortion, but they are all of a sudden concerned with balance in this one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,537 ✭✭✭touts


    I think he is done. He has lost all credibility as President. He has done NOTHING for the past 11 years other than make the odd attention seeking statement or speech. Compared to Robinson or McAleese he has been an utter waste of space. He had done nothing in his first term and should never have been allowed to break his promise not to seek a second term.

    He should go now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,537 ✭✭✭touts


    Just read his "apology". It's a typical non-apology apology. "He apologises for any offence which he may have inadvertently caused to Professor Richardson by what was a throwaway remark,"

    So the standard I'm sorry of you were stupid enough to take offence at my remarks about you.

    Similar to the non-apology apology issued about Sabina's behaviour a few months ago.

    He needs to go now. Enough is enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,471 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    The British Empire. What century are you from?

    This is her anyway. A lot more accomplished than the Commy in the House.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Richardson



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 653 ✭✭✭cheese sandwich


    I lost all respect for him when he went totally AWOL during the Covid emergency. Not a peep out of him then



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,705 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I would expect some respect for the honours system of our neighbours and for the Prof. herself.

    Anyway I hope she accepts his apology and we can move on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,563 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    If a country wants to honour someone for the good work they have done, why would you put that person down?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,187 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    We don't have neutrality, given that we allow other forces to use our country in their conflicts.

    Who and where gets use of our army in their conflicts?

    Are you suggesting UN peacekeeping operations are not neutral?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,187 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    On what grounds should he go?

    Can you point to the rule he has broken?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭Field east


    You definately need to do a simple course i foundation maths and then you might have a shot at rewording your post



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    The question is not what century I am from. She is the person describing herself as a Dame of the British Empire and you are the person supporting her doing that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,471 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Let it go,we're over that now.

    Her bio is mighty impressive I must say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,877 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Her CV is Far more impressive than the champagne socialist who cowardly attacked her and then rightly had to apologise



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    It's a mealy mouthed 'apology' for remarks he had no business making. The man is quite out of touch and should resign or be removed. He was reasonably active in his first jolly at the park. This second term, he's been reduced to sheltering from Covid, and alternating between boring us with his ditties and lecturing us. An embarrassment.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭Field east


    If you are 100% against NATO’ s existance or/and Ireland joining it will you then please suggest what Ireland should to if all communications cables / satellite signals and all gas/ oil pipelines were severed by Russia or another ‘enemy state’. Would you suggest that we go it alone or for, an alliance with friendly nations. Please add to the above the continuation of serious cyber attacks - which we have already got a little tast e of what that is like



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,877 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Even his apology is weasel worded and half hearted



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭CreadanLady


    "Ireland" would and could do **** all about the communications cables - because they are all owned by multinational companies rather than the state, so it will be their problem to fix them. Plus, the whole of europe and the UK relies on those cables, so they won't be waiting around to have them repaired by the aul Dept. of P+T. They will make their own arrangements with the comms multinationals to fix them.

    The MFV Creadan Lady is a mussel dredger from Dunmore East.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭CreadanLady


    What perplexes me most, is why can't the USA send over some sort of CIA spy to just find Putin and shoot him? I mean the FSB seem able to send over spies to poison individuals left right and centre, and that is with the Russian state being a throughly corrupt, incompetent and vodka riddled mess. Surely the USA can use their connections and agencies to bump off putin if they wanted to.

    The MFV Creadan Lady is a mussel dredger from Dunmore East.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,187 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    So he hasnt broken any rules then?

    You just want him to go because he said something you disagree with, gotcha



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,261 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Said without a hint of irony.


    I lol'd.

    The Triple Lock gives foreign empires more power of Irish foreign policy than the Dail. Yet some want to keep it that way.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,843 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Go on, tell us what you think Ireland should do it this unlikely circumstances. Invade Russia or invade this other enemy state that nobody can name?

    Why haven't the Swiss seen the light yet?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭boetstark


    Why do you keep mentioning word invade.

    Military aggression takes lots of forms invasion being least common.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Michael D Higgins has the largest mandate of any politician in the country. Anyone who thinks he should just be quiet clearly ignores that.

    Mind you I remember the furore here when he remarked about pay for members of the Defence Forces and how much of a disgrace he was for highlighting it, as if he isn't allowed to have anything to say as the Commander in Chief of said Defence Forces.

    Much ado about nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,843 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    So we are going to buy all these airplanes and ships and a larger army to do nothing for the next 100 years? Or is to fight other countries wars? It's a pointless debate.

    We cannot house our citizens. We cannot provide a quality health service or build a Children's hospital. We cannot fix our polluted rivers, lakes and seas. Those things are 1000 times more important than nonsense about joining NATO which will never happen.

    FFG are laughing at us.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,476 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    I think you watch too many movies how long did it take to find Osama bin laden and actually organise a team to kill him ?. and the repercussions of doing that would be to most likely bring in a much harder line leader.

    it would definitely be a case of careful what you wish for.



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