Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

Marc Canham was hired as director of football to replace Dokter last summer.

That is another false narrative created it is almost as if when the empire and hope falls you have to find fault with others. Claim it was their fault for not believing. The vast majority of people wanted Kenny to do well. And many Kenny evangelists seemed/still seem to think that ANY slight criticism of Kenny means that the person is an enemy of Irish soccer by 'out and out' Kenny supporters.

Somehow in their mind Kenny was the only hope and saviour for Irish soccer. To the extent it became a cult of personality. In some people's minds Kenny was on a soccer crusade and IS not just the manager but IS the embodiment of Irish soccer itself. Given the hype, hope and promises. So for such people to shine a critical light on him was difficult or almost impossible

I also suspect the way out and out Kenny supporters - fans/media kept creating a narrative of procession and progress (when there is little to see wound many others up)

And the fact Kenny seemed to be on a cushy number of zero accountability for so long, like a a civil service job has wound up the middle ground fanbase. The middle ground have lost patience.

This has moved many people into the ambulant at best or sack him at worst camp. Personally I think Kenny should be put in the u21's permanently. There he can blood players and if they are good enough they will find a way through at senior level, Kenny will be safe there out of the limelight with zero pressure and accountability.

He would be much better suited to that. If he does poorly as u21 manager the masses will not notice. Noel King was u21 manager for 8 years, And most wouldn't have known he was even there.

The message has been delivered again and again that keane has little to no chance of being appointed yet you go on and on about him…there’s being headstrong and then there’s just being rock headed

Keane is a failed manager though, whatever about Kenny being the same is largely irrelevant in the context of Keane. He's consistently failed as a manager and there's a reason clubs have no interest in him.

Championing one failure to replace another is a bit of a strange one. We should start moving away from proven consistent failures. It doesn't ever end well.

The amount of conjecture in this:

Keane comes in and all of a sudden there are sponsors knocking down the door?? Do you honestly think if the FAI thought the reason they couldn’t agree a sponsorship was Kenny that he’d still be here? It’s a hilariously petty dig at Kenny too to blame him for something that is literally nothing to do with him.

Keane says a few things, or “quips” to the media and all of a sudden people arrive in their droves? Football fans want to watch football, and we already have a very healthy sized match going crowd. We’ll probably get 20000+ tonight which is fantastic for a Monday night game against a bottom seed.

Since Sunderland his career as a manager has had little of note. Multiple posters have pointed out issues that previous players have had with him but for some reason this is just brushed aside.

I don’t know who the next manager should be but it should definitely not be Keane, he’s done nothing recently to prove he’s in any way suitable for the job, certainly not by those points raised above.

How is Roy Keane a failed manager he won an English championship - managed in the EPL - and managed in the championship after as well. If you turn it on it's head. Kenny was a 'failed manager;` in the UK at much lower level - Scottish div 1. But he went back to the LOI and suddenly he was the next best thing?

Are you telling me that if Roy Keane had a even a short stint in the LOI like Duff suddenly that would make him a better candidate somehow? I don't get it.

I have already said multiple times that Kenny should go at this stage. He deserved his chance, and considering he was asked to refresh the squad with youth, that he deserved time, which he’s gotten.

What I am saying is that campaign under Mick was largely terrible, when people keep touting it a some sort of success because we got knocked out late in the group.

We won 3 games against lower seeds(one was one of the lowest seeds we could get), threw away a golden opportunity away in Georgia by settling for a draw after 10 minutes, the football in most games was utter dross and we never, ever looked like we could win a game we needed to, because we always played for a draw, and we only ever tried once we went behind.

You want Kenny out because he doesn’t get results, I agree, and I agree because the FAI did it the right way imo, by giving him the time to prove himself.

But the answer to Kenny Out is certainly not Mick or Roy In. The FAI needs to try and find a successor, someone to continue the job Kenny has done instead of paying someone far more to hope that somehow we can draw our way to victory.

Not true again you are creating a narrative again. I am more of a GAA man true, don't support an EPL team or any of the Celtic is Irish stuff. But I see lot of hypocritical Irish soccer supporters who don't follow the LOI but religiously travel over to the UK and say 'we' then wonder why the development of Irish players is shite.

I went to a Rovers v Dundalk top teams LOI game few years back on a nice summers day out of curiosity in tallaght. The crowd was pathetic in size I was shocked. Yet the crowd was segregated! That made me laugh.

I also went to a Kenny u21 match in the same stadium around the same time. The vibe of the crowd seemed to be one of hope and expectation. It was a 0-0. Many of the players I saw that day have not cut it at` senior level. Despite the hype.

The National League in England has more atmosphere and sense of community than the LOI has. Fans identify with it. I attended one of those games over in England as my brother lives close to a team around the same time I saw u21 Ireland and that LOI game in Tallaght 2019. So it gave me a unique perspective.

It made me embarrassed/sad for the LOI and how the Irish soccer public treat it. The VNL in England had a GAA community feel to it. Most Irish soccer fans don't have that community feel. They instead have to try and manufacture it in the support of big British brands from the PL. That is not real soccer support that is brand name - consumer stuff.`

The last time I remember a REAL proper buzz over the LOI was Pat Fenlon with Shels - v Hadjuk Spilt/Deportivo la Coruna etc

I was there for this goal for example- Rodgers v Hadjuk

The LOI is a basket cast Delaney is correct, I never knew he said that. But 'so called' soccer Irish fans made a balls if it since way back in the 50's/60's when Irish soccer was run by gombeens. Fellas with little or no education and business acumen. Meanwhile Rugby and the GAA took off. But yet the Irish soccer fans want a great Irish soccer team playing football 'the right way'? Are people mad or what?`Cop on lads.

There are bigger crowds at Liverpool/Man United/Celtic friendlies against LOI teams than there is in many LOI teams domestic attendances combined. Plus the Irish soccer 'fan' consumer supports the British team if that is not off the wall stuff I don't know what is.

Irish soccer adminstrator`s could not capitalise on the massive bohs v drums crowds for example. So the flaky Irish soccer fans had their heads turned by England instead. The fans don't go to LOI as simple as that. It is also Dubin centric another major problem.

So Irish soccer is just built on a foundation of sand, there are lot of fellas with 'pub talk' notions like yourself, low on ideas. You seem to be a microcosm of the Irish soccer fan in that sense not knowing what they want. And blaming others for it's facrical nature while sitting on the high stool expounding. What foreign manager would take the Irish job??

As I said Roy Keane has already turned jobs down - he wants a high profile one - one where he sees a project. He is free has the CV he is available he has the profile. But yet your notions seem to super cede common sense.

Sure. Drawing away to Georgia in a Euro campaign where you have been paid millions because your only objective is to qualify is objectively worse than losing to Luxembourg in a WC group during a team rebuild with no objective to qualify.

Happy?

McCarthy true million more like just over 1 million, but Kenny's contract is adding up to millions with even less return on the investment.

The truth is Mick McCarthy was and still is a better manager (and is a better better manager) than Stephen Kenny will ever be. Mick got teams performing above the sum of their parts at a higher level than Kenny ever has. That is what good managers do. Has Kenny done that? No English club came calling? I wonder will Celtic come in for him after all his good work?

The ONLY things that Kenny had going for him was aspirational HOPE of a new direction. it was not based on anything more concrete than that. It was a brilliant move by the FAI from a marketing/optics point of view. Easily fooled the fans/media.

McCarthy handing over 'the torch' to Kenny. But it was mainly an optics trick to get the fans back on side. All the talk of 'playing football the right way' AND getting results was gleefully lapped up by the media and fans. if you even questioned the narrative created after a number of games you were viewed as negative and against not only Kenny and Irish soccer itself

Did he get Ireland to perform above the sum of their parts?

We were seeded third and we finished third. Kenny did the same in the WC qualifiers.

He didn’t beat any of the higher seeds, and at no point were Ireland ahead in any of those games.

I would argue that Kenny had us closer to winning against a higher seed away to Portugal when they were actually winning for a lot of the match, and Portugal got some extremely suspect decisions with the referees head lodged firmly in Ronaldos arse.

At best you could say he got Ireland the results at a par with their parts but really that’s not too dissimilar to Kenny.

I feel the need to point out again that I think Kenny should go because he’s been given enough time, but my god, that 2020 campaign seems to have been romanticised beyond belief.

But Mick didn't have a litany of embarrassing collapses against lower ranked poor sides like Kenny did he? Georgia draw is the main one used to bash McCarthy. But you are spoiled for choice with the Kenny results too many to mention.``

Mick lost one game in qualifiers and conceded only 5 goals. The That is hard to beat in my book. Good management. If Kenny did that, some would be calling for roads and statues to be named after him. It comes back to optics and narrative creation for the 'In Kenny we Trust' brigade. There was little else as far as I can see.

Kenny was handed the play off's on a plate as Mick stepped down - and Kenny even failed that one.

Typical 'qualify' those losses. Qualified losses seems to be the only type of qualification Kenny has a chance of getting. I just find the myth created around Kenny hilarious at this stage. I have never heard such a run of excuses given for an Irish manager ever. I firmly believe that if Mick was left in charge for that play off instead of Kenny Ireland had a much better chance of qualifying.

You would swear the Kenny was the first Irish manager to overhaul a squad. Mick did it after Jack. Plus it was far harder to qualify for tournaments in Mick's 1st time. He got savaged for failing the play off v Belgium and the Irish soccer 'fans' booed Mark Kennedy. But Mick turned things around the next campaign.

Of course the media narrative resulted in Mick's sacking where the Irish fans roared Keano - Keano against Russia. (Meaning Roy)

Nowadays' qualifying is like a sports day type thing a lot more teams get a lot more chances.

Mick got those draws against Denmark and Switerland. If Kenny got those results v similar calibre teams what to do think the reaction would be. The media are manipulating Irish soccer fans like puppets. Because they are susceptible to manipulation because of aspirational hope and notions

Was that the playoff game we were in because we came bottom of our Nations League group ?

Kenny was specifically asked to do this. Delaney had Mick in to qualify by any means so he could hide the books long enough to f*ck off to the UEFA ExCo(thank god that didn’t pan out).

Kenny was then given the job of bringing through youth players and looking at a longer term approach to the squad. He didn’t just take it upon himself to bring a load of young lads in for the sake of it.

So considering we had to significantly change our team and start giving youth competitive international experience they didn’t get before, I would absolutely think it’s reasonable to think there would be some bumps along the way and we might lose some games we may have otherwise drawn.

And doing it through a WC campaign made sense, we haven’t qualified in 20 years and we haven’t been in a position to expect to for almost as long - I wouldn’t hold it against any of our managers over the last 10 years that we didn’t qualify so I wouldn’t hold it against Kenny either. So getting a loss or a draw in a campaign that we were likely never going to qualify from is a good trade off for getting young player’s senior competitive experience.

I will judge Mick purely on results because his job was to qualify by any means and he failed in that objective.

I wouldn't expect any country to hire him because I don't think he would do the job well outside Ireland.

But his record working in Ireland before he took the Irish managers job was very good.

As is always the case with Kenny, expect a big reaction tonight. Some crisp football and a few goals. But it should be viewed as allowing him to go out on a relative high. Rather than any indication of things turning around

Will there be any tickets floating around tonight ?

Really stuck for one for my 2nd child !! 😣🙄

Bit of history rewriting going on in regards to Mick "getting us to a playoff" from some people.

The sad thing for all of us is neither Kenny or Mick 2.0 have had great results.

No one in their right mind will view a win against Gibraltar as "turning it around"

I don't think it's that, I think it's more people arguing that Mick Mccarthy last stint as Irish manager was a success so he should get the job next. Which is a strange take.

Those are the type of comments a fella makes when he is losing an argument. It reads like a line from Kenny press conference, He does not bother either.