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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Seeing as the granting of licences is now banned in oil and gas, the same criteria are not applied. Ryan did everything in his power to block Barryroe and presumably other legacy licenses but isn't concerned that the likes of Bord na Mona seem to be planning on operating offshore, well beyond their remit, because it suits him.

    There's a definite bias towards wind despite it costing nearly 3 times as much as elsewhere but the Greens are delighted with themselves. Expect to pay 5 times more than our neighbours and then when it's only 2.5, it's a bargain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    That's the way it is sure. No one said otherwise. Then, why, as part of that should trillions of dollars be sent to those countries, both of whom are high polluters themselves and in now way short of a few bob. What's the rational?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    By all means, outline the barrier(s) that Barryroe faced that was specific to them and no other entity performing offshore work, be that oil, gas or wind

    Once you dig into it you'll find the exact same criteria was applied to them as everyone else. They are not special, despite what they'd like you to believe

    Was that based on your extensive research, LOL. You just literally make it up as you go along don't you?

    Ryan turned down the Barryroe application on the basis of a cherrypicked guideline (not a rule) that was introduced in 2019, many years after the applicable legislation. Here's the link, read it for yourself:

    He decided to cherrypick the Investment Cover criterion (section 6.2). The exact same criteria as applied to everyone else, right? Uh, no. It has never been used before. Davy stockbrokers pointed out that no small explorer could ever have met the criterion as they raise capital to meet requirements and could not possibly be expected to have 3.5x the cost of a work program on hand in tangible assets. That's why a company is allowed and expected to provide its own specific funding arrangements (under section 7) -- which is exactly what Barryroe did, having the entire cost of the work program available in escrow. That meant they met the cash cover criterion (section 6.3) which Ryan could just as easily have applied. Note, that they did this in response to an arbitrary demand from Ryan to come up with the money in 21 days last November, based on what he claimed was an independently commissioned report that he had sat on for months. All in all he took two years to come up with a decision, which bled Barryroe of cash.

    So, ball back in your court: show me all those renewables projects to which this criterion was applied? Did all those community renewables projects have 3.5x the cost of their wind turbines in tangible assets? Or were they cobbled-together consortia that had barely a sniff of finance arranged in advance, albeit that green venture capital is fairly easily accessible (given that these projects are basically sucking on the tit of guaranteed public money and investors are falling over themselves to pile in for eye-watering returns)?

    Any non-blinkered observer can see that Ryan made a nakedly ideologically decision to scupper a company that had ploughed tens of millions of private capital into a project he didn't like -- a project that would have reduced Ireland's carbon footprint, increased its energy security, and brought money to public coffers. But I'm all ears as to how "the exact same criteria was applied to them as everyone else", because it sure seems like a criterion was applied that has never been applied to anyone else, ever. Over to you...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Seeing as the granting of licences is now banned in oil and gas, the same criteria are not applied.

    The ban did not impact previously granted licences

    Ryan did everything in his power to block Barryroe

    What barrier(s) did Barryroe face that was specific to them and no other entity performing offshore work

    As I said, the same criteria is applicable to all offshore work and is built into the licensing requirements for offshore wind.

    Barryroe are crying foul because they think they're a special case. Looks like they are not



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    The rationale is to allow them to invest to decarbonise faster, so that richer countries can decarbonise more slowly.

    it would be very wrong to say that India is ‘not short of a few bob’. The country is still largely impoverished. Median income and standard of living there are very low. China is stronger but at nothing like the levels of the West.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    See ps200306's post. It details Ryan's initial inaction and subsequent bespoke action only applied to this project.

    For a person so concerned with Climate change you are doing your very best to contribute to emissions by spamming biased links and then promoting multiple unnecessary posts asking for responses, whilst choosing to ignore direct questions, shirking answering anything posed to you and repeatedly ignoring when you've been called out as wrong. Prove the same criterion was applied to all offshore wind developments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,379 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    yet eamonn ryan has zero objections to issuing prospecting licenses for moving across the country.

    latest gold one in mayo

    north leitrim

    But 406 prospecting licences have also been issued across the country from Cork to Donegal, Kildare to Leitrim, Clare, Kilkenny, Galway, Dublin and more, allowing firms to explore for precious metals.



    a mine coming somwhere near you



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    They are that way because of a) huge population and b) dodgy leaders. Pumping trillions into them is very unlikely to up the standards for those livin there bar the top %. Both of these countries receive trillions iin investment and purchases from "the west" every year. Are we saying we stop buying from them and just give the money instead? This of course would bring down emissions as we buy and sell too much tat. We could easily do that without sending trillions over that direction



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    The company involved in Barryroe is a complete shambles and the sort of company Ireland as a country needs to move away from. When you see the likes of Larry Goodman involved and the list of companies who got involved to walk away the alarm bells would be ringing

    If Barryroe is actually what it is promised to be then Ireland, the government, should partner with a proper company to verify and then extract the oil/gas or whatever is down their. Let that company involved die gracefully and never return



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Prove the same criterion was applied to all offshore wind developments.

    Sure, compare the requirements in "Maritime Area Consent Financial Viability Assessment Guidance – Offshore Renewable Energy" versus "DCCAE Guidance Document, Financial Capability Assessment for Offshore Oil & Gas Exploration and Appraisal".

    I'm not going to post the details here as its pages and pages long, but links to both files are above for you to review

    If anything, the criteria for offshore wind is stricter.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    So we should make China bear the brunt of future carbon reductions because of their crappy governance? That seems to be what you are saying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    I don't know how you came to that conclusion. We need to reduce emissions across the board. Some countries more than others. China being one of those.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    So once again your response is more links to long documents rather than specifically answering the question asked?

    Posting requirements is not the same as posting proof that the same checks happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    They have emitted less than everybody else when you look at it per capita (and have a far lower standard of living to match). So how is it fair that they should they reduce emissions faster than us?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The request was "Prove the same criterion was applied to all offshore wind developments."

    I posted the criteria that applies to both. I don't think anyone would appreciate me pasting 70 pages into a post. If you don't wish to review for yourself, thats on you. Horse to water etc

    If you wish to see evidence that the same checks were not applied, by all means show me a source that provides detailed information on the checks performed on Barryroe's application and other applications for offshore work and I'll happily review for you. I'm unaware of any source with that level of information in the public realm as it would likely be highly sensitive to the commercial companies involved. I'm open to correction on that though

    If its publicly available I'd be most interested in having a look at it

    Outside of that, there is only the previously posted documents which outline the requirements to go off which indicate that offshore work, regardless of what it is for, has to meet a very high bar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Because they are terrible polluters. If we upped our population does that mean we need to reduce emissions by less as our per capita would be lower? That logic has no place in emission conversations. Biggest polluters should reduce the most, in particular those who pollute for little to no social benefit (making tat from plastics, energy generation (I'm thinking Turkmenistan here more than China))



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    What's the story here? Why are we acting the bollox? Couple this with no gas storage and ya'd wonder what the plan is to our energy security



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    The new Finnish nuke at Olkiluoto went online last month. Finnish electricity prices went negative as a result ... or maybe not.

    The discussion is basically a rehash of arguments had on this thread. Yes, the negative prices are probably because of the meltwater driving excess hydro at this time of year. But it's interesting that Finland can't even give away its excess power in spite of having way more interconnectors than Ireland will ever have -- an AC connection to Norway, two HVDC connections to Estonia, two AC links and 2 HVDC links to Sweden, and via Sweden to Germany, Poland and Lithuania, a total of around two gigawatts.

    The guy from the "Nuclear Consulting Group" is a scream. What's with this new fad for naming groups after the thing that they are diametrically opposed to? (Are they all taking after the "European Research Group"?). He basically takes the same line as some on here, that nuclear is too expensive, too late, and the cost of renewables is now just too cheap for there to be any other option.

    He seems to have missed the news that renewables costs are going up. Probably because the renewable economy will need 500% of current copper reserves, 1000% of current nickel reserves, and 3000% each of current cobalt, graphite and vanadium reserves (source).

    Or the fact that the headline capex cost of renewables is not their actual cost. Ask anyone whose electricity prices have soared after implementing all these "cheap" renewables. Or ask the "Renewable Energy Foundation" -- yes you've guessed it, they're against renewables. They say that in spite of falling solar panel costs "the combination of rising opex costs and declining performance means that existing solar plants are unlikely to cover their operating costs once their period of eligibility for subsidy comes to an end after 20 years and they move to operating as merchant generators" (source).



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Turkmenistan is a very poor country. It does not have much actual CO2 emissions to reduce.

    It has some leaky fields, which is very bad, but that is just a distraction. I understand that this will be resolved in the next two years but even if there were no methane leaks anywhere it would not significantly abate climate change.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He basically takes the same line as some on here, that nuclear is too expensive, too late, and the cost of renewables is now just too cheap for there to be any other option.

    • too expensive - It cost 11 billion, 3 times its original estimate.
    • too late - construction started in 2005. Due for completion in 2010, actual commercial operation started in 2022 at which point it had to be shut down for months due to issues and only started back up in 2023. "Late" doesn't come close
    • the cost of renewables is now just too cheap for there to be any other option - I don't know of a single LCOE estimate from the last number of years that doesn't show this to be the case


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Wait, are you saying reducing methane has no effect on impact on global temps?

    The reason I ask is because when the Nordstream pipelines were blown up, it was described in the Guardian as one of the worst acts of global eco-terrorism every carried out.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Whoa! Hold up.

    Turkmenistan is poor, again because of leaderhsip. It's got massive natural resources, so much so that they haven't bothered their hole to stop one of the worlds biggest methane producing holes

    Or is methane only a problem when it comes to cows? Are you saying plugigng this methane hole won't affect the climate because there's a minority with loud voices preaching armageddon if a few cows aren't culled



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Are we back to the manouver where the subject is changed to something utterly irrelevant to the big picture?

    This hole will be plugged. But no it won’t make any difference to reaching targets because it wasn’t even supposed to exist. Plugging it just brings us back to zero.

    There has never been any question of culling cows. Again that’s a silly distraction. There is not even any absolute need to reduce the herd. But if we don’t reduce the herd, how are we going to meet our international climate commitments?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Don't think I changed the subject. I say it's a waste sending trillions to big polluters of the world.

    This hole will be plugged. But no it won’t make any difference to reaching targets because it wasn’t even supposed to exist. Plugging it just brings us back to zero.

    I don't understand this. If plugging this brings us to zero (zero what?), why is that bad or not the same as leaving it open. Genuinly, what's the logic here.

    There has never been any question of culling cows. Again that’s a silly distraction. There is not even any absolute need to reduce the herd. But if we don’t reduce the herd, how are we going to meet our international climate commitments?

    It's in one of the government reports about the need to cull. Wasn't auld Elon himself twittering about the stupidity of it there a week or two ago. I don't have answers on how to cut emissions, no more than many have. There's proposals and ideas and ambitions but I can't say for definite which would work or not. Though I'll say culling cows here will make no difference to worldwide emissions due to the likes of Brazil, Australia, elsewhere taking up the slack. By 2060 we'll need 70% more food than we have now to feed the world while over 2 billioin in the world are malnourished. We need to promote Ireland as an agri producer as it's one of, if not the best in class at it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    This is distraction land, but where has the Irish government ever proposed culling cattle?

    Re plugging the holes, when the calculations were done it was assumed that there were no methane leaks like this. They are not part of the do-nothing forecast. Plugging these leaks just brings us back to the do-nothing forecast. It does nothing to help the world reduce carbon emissions below the do-nothing forecast.

    These lines of argument are silly distractions from the core issue, that the developed West will have to make the big investments to reduce CO2 emissions.

    It is clearer and clearer that your problem is with the whole Paris concept. You don’t agree with the idea of countries and regions (like the EU) having targets and countries being committed to reach those targets. That’s fair enough, but what alternative have you to propose?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Classic deflection. Please explicity quote the precise statement where all offshore wind has been subject to the same requirements, not "will be" , "may be" or some other vague future commitment but where it has actually happened. Otherwise, we can draw our own conclusions as to what hole you are talking out of. There's a consistent theme throughout the thread asking you for direct evidence and all you do is ignore or deflect with long vaguely related linked documents. Perhaps it's merely covering the fact that you haven't read them yourself and are blindly hoping it's in there. Perhaps it's just because you know that no one will follow up and you can believe you've pulled off another great deflection.

    Ultimately, what you have done in terms of providing information wouldn't stack up in court, in an audit or quite frankly in any meaningful debate.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Please explicity quote the precise statement where all offshore wind has been subject to the same requirements

    I literally supplied you with the documents that lay out out the financial requirements for both offshore wind and offshore oil/gas. The offshore doc is almost a copy & paste from the oil/gas one. That you choose not to look at them is your issue not mine 🤷‍♂️

    What conclusions you draw from your own refusal to review the requirements for both, is, again, your issue, not mine but, personally speaking, I've never found the "head in the sand" approach to be a strong position from which to base an argument



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    You literally supplied nothing. I've seen no evidence of anything having been done within.

    Here your honour, based on these links to the Road Traffic Acts and Amendments, alongside the Rules of the Road, you can clearly see that I had nothing to do with those slashed (sorry deflated) tyres. The evidence is right inside those thousands of pages of what you should do, it's up to you to find it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Got news for you, you did NOT answer a direct question:

    Do you condone these acts of vandalism? For me, by not answering a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ shows me you do condone. And if that’s the case, then you are a very poor independent ‘person’.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    I’m in this constituency and I can guarantee she won’t be getting my vote.



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