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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    A bit strange is it not that the baseline is 1960 when all the noise in the 1970`s was that there was an ice age on the way, but perhaps with using 1960 as the baseline the timeline fitted the authors narrative better.

    Now if you were to take 1990 as a baseline, from the E.U. Commission Emissions Database for Global Atmospheric Research, (EDGAR), you could make a good case that the E.U. is actually owed money.

    Top two highlighted as being owed money, China and India, have both made it very clear as to where they stand on using coal, so this idea that they should be given handouts is laughable. Especially where both are taking full advantage of Putin`s war now buying cut price oil from Putin. In fact take a baseline from 1972 and China`s CO2 emissions have risen anually by 4.3%. But then it seems all the green loved tech requires fossil fuels to produce.

    This whole begging bowl approach kicked off big time at Scotland`s COP. Take a look at any of the coverage of the last day when John Kerry arrived with a bag of money and the scramble will tell you all you need to know. Last years COP in Egypt took that to a whole new level, so I will just take this latest with a pinch of salt from looking at it as more of the same.

    The reason many of these countries are under-developed is in many many cases down to corruption in governance. You have only to look at the so called developed world throwing money their way for decades to provide, food, water, education etc. and see how that has worked. To believe that throwing money at them to combat climate change would end up in different pockets is fantasy thinking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Just read the Examiner article linked here. Not sure what planet this O’Reilly is on? She certainly has no time for FG. Am amazed this coalition is still in place based on her vitriolic rant.

    I’d love to know how she expects to get votes throughout the midlands where her dictator party leader has done his best to outlaw turf cutting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Apologies post deleted: boards told me an error occurred posting so I reposted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    They haven't. It's in one of the reports they commissioned. I'll have a gawk later and see what I can find.

    Re. the plugging holes. When the sums were done and it says we've X emissions, then we find that big massive hole spewing methane out. Were the numbers changed or if we plug that hole are we now better off as the X number is drastically reduced? Or is this just accountancy and the actual plugging of the hole won't be done because X doesn't change. Forget the emissions and all that - is that it?

    As to what to do about our own emissions. No idea. Tax the bejaysus out of aviation fuel in line with other fossil fuels? Higher taxes for non EVs in urban settings. Free upgrades of homes to a B standard? More high rise buildings instead of urban sprawl? More tree cover in urban settings? Probably more if I spend a bit more time thinking about it. Cheaper PT maybe? More electric buses in towns. Higher taxes on the likes of cement factories which are fierce high emitters of polution?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,390 ✭✭✭prunudo




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Charlie14, don’t hold Your breath expecting dc to change his/her tune. He/she cannot even answer a straight yes or no question.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    the cost of renewables is now just too cheap for there to be any other option - I don't know of a single LCOE estimate from the last number of years that doesn't show this to be the case

    Arithmetic must be different in your world alongside everything else. Our recent offshore wind auction returned prices three times higher than natural gas, and that's not even counting all the other costs they place on the grid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    No those holes will be plugged. If they weren’t plugged it would just make the required reduction in other areas larger by the same amount. Aviation fuel and cement are outside Ireland targets and are already in fairly tough carbon pricing regimes especially cement and infra-Europe aviation. Urban trees are just mitigation, don’t contribute anything much as carbon sink. EVs are really supply constrained. Reducing public transport prices has already been done and unlikely to have much more effect. Restructuring the population as you suggest is a good idea but takes decades and hits a lot of resistance. Building upgrades are now labour constrained.

    All these measures are capital intensive and are only possible because of our wealth. As you rightly say most of the population of the world are in big Asian countries and are poor for whatever reason. If we want then to follow our lead we’re going to have to make big investments there.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Right. What do we do here then to reduce our emissions before we spluge trillions in Asia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I asked you about something similar you posted a while back , as to could you repost as the search function here is rubbish, but you must have missed it. No worries I did a bit of research myself and the figures really are outlandish, but not how you see them.

    Finland has the same population as Ireland but consumes 2.86 the level of electricity we do annually (81.6TWh compared to 28.5TWh)

    That €11 billion is providing 15% of their electricity. That is the equivalent of €11 billion providing 43% of our needs. The offshore wind+hydrogen plan for 100% with 30GW (and this is before it was furher increased by a few more GW) was costing over €200 billion.

    You do the maths as to which figure is the outlandish one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    You're completely missing the point here. Western countries have built their economies up using cheap reliable energy. Developing countries will build up their economies using cheap reliable energy. Now, what do you think will happen if all western countries suddenly had far more expensive energy, as we are seeing in Europe?

    That's right, more and more manufacturing and jobs will move to where the cheap reliable energy is located. It will eventually get to the point whereby the standard of living will start to drop sufficiently that populations around Europe will start voting in parties that will give them, you guessed it, cheap reliable energy.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306



    The rationale is to allow them to invest to decarbonise faster, so that richer countries can decarbonise more slowly. it would be very wrong to say that India is ‘not short of a few bob’. The country is still largely impoverished. Median income and standard of living there are very low. China is stronger but at nothing like the levels of the West.

    Hang on, we have to send money to poorer countries to allow them decarbonise faster? I thought the point was that they hadn't used their share of the remaining carbon budget yet, so they're entitled to emit more. So why wouldn't we spend our own money on negative carbon emissions, thereby leaving the money under our own control and available for technologies that we are more capable of producing. This smells of some socialist utopia. And then I saw this bit:

    It's socialist utopia meets bullshit new age religion:

    It is imperative that we forge a new system that restores harmony with nature and among human beings. And in order for there to be balance with nature, there must first be equity among human beings.  We propose to the peoples of the world the recovery, revalorization, and strengthening of the knowledge, wisdom, and ancestral practices of Indigenous Peoples, which are affirmed in the thought and practices of “Living Well,” recognizing Mother Earth as a living being with which we have an indivisible, interdependent, complementary and spiritual relationship.  To face climate change, we must recognize Mother Earth as the source of life and forge a new system...

    That's grift on a par with any televangelist. Uh, no. Just no. Wake up and smell the coffee. While these people are rabbiting on about free handouts for the living Mother Earth and ending the "patriarchal civilizing model" of capitalism, here's what's going on in the real world:

    At today's Paris airshow IndiGo ordered 500 Airbus A320s to add to the 830 aircraft it already has in the order pipeline. That's about 15 million annual tonnes of CO2 -- a quarter of Ireland's total emissions -- in just the future orderbook of a single Indian airline. Is that the decarbonisation you were talking about, that we have to pay for? Pull the other one. The Greens are hell bent on destroying not just this country, but the world. Come next election I will support literally anyone who actively campaigns against them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    What is this negative emissions technology you speak of?

    So you think India should stay in poverty and go without transport links we take for granted?

    Post edited by antoinolachtnai on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Met Eireann have released an excellent resource, called TRANSLATE

    TRANSLATE brings together all previous climate projections of relevance for Ireland, enhancing and improving their confidence and robustness and it combines them into one, easy to use, national resource to help Irish society to speak the same climate language. This novel initiative not only examines a range of potential future green-house emission scenarios, but also for the first time it allows decision-makers to see what Ireland would look like in different warmer-world scenarios. This will benefit all sectors of Irish society, including the energy sector.


    Initial findings from TRANSLATE climate projections confirm a warming climate signal for Ireland. Temperatures are projected to increase across all greenhouse gas emission scenarios. The TRANSLATE dataset confirms that Ireland is likely to experience a decrease in the frequency of cold winter nights and up to a 10-fold increase in the frequency of warm (> 15°C) summer nights, alongside an increasing number of heatwaves, by the end of the century. In terms of precipitation, summers are projected to be drier and winters to be wetter, with precipitation increasing annually overall.

    Some really excellent stuff on there and you can request access to the raw data in various formats too

    Fair play to ME for putting this sort of stuff together in a useable format. It will be a useful tool in the fight against climate change and misinformation about climate change



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Holy crap, only a few weeks after getting refused their application, Barryroe have gone into liquidation. On 8th June they announced that they had about 170k eur left in the kitty, which they said would allow them to keep running for 3 weeks if investors didn't cough up more. Looks like they couldn't raise more in the interim, but they're going to limp on until an EGM in a few weeks in the hope of getting a few quid

    Just goes to show the right decision was made regarding their financial position. Imagine if that happened while they were in the middle of whatever offshore work they'd planned. I shudder to think of the potential environmental damage that could have been done.

    Bullet dodged!

    I feel sorry for the shareholders. Falling from over 8 pounds a share years ago to barely 1 penny when they suspended trading, ouch

    Multiple partners pulled out of developing the Barryroe field several times over the last number of years. I can only speculate that the parties had to open up their books to each other and that sent those partners running for the hills

    Oh well, we're almost at the end.

    I wonder if someone will look to put a wind farm there?

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    The ORESS-1 auction price versus Dutch TTG gas price per megawatt (randomly plucked from a couple of weeks ago like the Greenies did when they declared wind nine times cheaper than gas), downgraded to 60% to allow for CCGT efficiency.



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    In the end, going back to the beginning there is yet one thing to be conclusively proven namely that Co2 causes temperature rises. And there is none. You can talk about greenhouse gasses all you want, it cannot outperform all the other (more massive) variables. Everything follows from that. Every debate a moot point. It is a mass formation with religious undertones. 30% true believers (the hypnotized which includes most of the msm), 30% just going along (dunno, but trust the institutional experts), 30% 'i have no time for this' and 10% skeptics who fight back (and are called 'in the pocket of the oil industry' by default). Many of the to and fro debates/conversations here are futile ego spats.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    The idea is that we should all feel incredibly guilty about using hydrocarbons which relates to colonialism and capitalism which in turn raped and pillaged the Earth. In order to restore the natural equilibrium we should halt capitalism and any idea of growth, especially in the western world. We want the same for the developing world (Africa) so should go out and lecture them how to lead a moral life (Macron). This makes us feel good about ourselves after being filled w self hatred (a modern idea). That is the balance right there (and the likes of Bill Gates after taking advantage of his monopoly for decades). In the meantime money can be made by pushing the transition (Bill gates et al again). Big money can steer this ship. If it crashes you can be sure they wouldve already jumped on another one. The Elon Musks of this world will not suffer, they can move w the tide. Poor people are stuck and will, en masse..

    And to prove Jrant's point about manufacturing: the (german) company BASF, one of the largest chemical companies has already moved over 60% of production out of the EU due to regulations (constrains). They stay to gobble up green subsidies and see how the green ship fairs before jumping off and pulling out altogether. We see this de-industrialisation happening everywhere in the west. A de facto green dream turning into a nightmare with the greens insisting the dream continues..



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    For all the talk about the price of gas in Europe being low, a certain amount of it is due to mothballing of some of the year round demand (industry) and the lack of heating demand in summer. Industry in winter is becoming increasingly unviable. That’s not exactly a welcome development.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    That's one way of looking at it. Another is that the Minister for Dreams, Energy Chaos and Codswollop bled them dry by intentionally dawdling on key decisions before he eventually stumbled on a requirement that didn't initially apply to them, but he made sure to hang them on it anyway.

    I doubt that they'd have run out of money mid stream had Eamon not screwed them over. Now that he has, the question remains - where is our energy security going to come from? With Corrib on the way out, Kinsale successfully killed off so it can't even be used for storage and insufficient oil storage reserves, what happens next? The Ukrainian invasion shows us that energy security is fundamental to safeguard our economy but also for more basic needs like keeping warm and having a light on in the dark. We were lucky last winter, who knows what the next few winters might bring.

    If ER had one iota of sense, he'd step in and create some sort of StáitOla and let the state take it on. That way he could ensure that whatever environmental considerations would be met and that any benefits would go directly to our citizens rather than lining the pockets of private companies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Alright, so you have miscalculated the cost of gas generated electricity (mainly by neglecting to provide for an actual generating plant but also by not accounting for carbon costs).



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    To underpin my previous post, this article points to those companies behind the push for green energy who are starting to turn and pull out of schemes they previously were part of. Maybe they are realising that the resistance is getting bigger and that they won't be able to control the implementation of green policies even when new laws have been made. Also, the crash of a multitude of green startups and the financing of those companies makes it harder for shareholders to support. The recent(!) German debacle is clearly having an effect as well as the political pushback in several countries w new leaders/parties elected. These are all my inferences. But still, money talks..



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Brazil finished its consultation process two weeks ago with the parliamentary vote passing by a bill by a large majority allowing more deforestation of the rainforest for farming and mining. That should go a long way to helping them increase their cattle numbers by 20 times those the Irish Green Party were seeking to have culled here, and yet a poster here believes we should be sending them some kind of conscience money.

    On current evidence it would more than likely end up being used to purchase chainsaws and bulldozers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Meh, it's just more of the same RCP garbage in, garbage out computer model projections picked to agree with the narrative, these models have no demonstrated predictive skill. The pretty colours will excite climate bed wetters and keep them in line, they are not presenting evidence and they have been careful not to put target numbers on their press releases, i.e no accountability.

    Translate Results


    TRANSLATE provides the first ever standardised and bias-corrected national climate projections for Ireland. The bias correction means that users can use the data directly (which is not always possible).


    Projections broadly agree with previous projections for Ireland, indicating future increases in temperatures annually, with drier Summers and wetter Winters ahead as the climate continues to change.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306



    Holy crap, only a few weeks after getting refused their application, Barryroe have gone into liquidation. On 8th June they announced that they had about 170k eur left in the kitty, which they said would allow them to keep running for 3 weeks if investors didn't cough up more. Looks like they couldn't raise more in the interim, but they're going to limp on until an EGM in a few weeks in the hope of getting a few quid

    Just goes to show the right decision was made regarding their financial position. Imagine if that happened while they were in the middle of whatever offshore work they'd planned. I shudder to think of the potential environmental damage that could have been done.

    Every post gets more clueless. You really are singing straight off Ryan's hymn sheet.

    Providence/Barryroe regularly raised money for ongoing operations. They were in the middle of a £20m raise when Ryan dropped the bombshell. Money was literally in investors' broker accounts, ready to be taken on May 23rd when the announcement came on May 19th. This was on top of the development money for the entire proposed work program that was sitting in escrow. They were essentially about to be fully funded days after Ryan pulled the plug. Given that Ryan claimed to have his external report on Barryroe finances this time last year, the timing is all remarkably coincidental, right? He literally put them out of business more emphatically than if he'd set their HQ on fire. If you think his decision was motivated by concern about their financial position I have a bridge to sell you.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    and yet they are going into liquidation 🤷‍♂️

    Seems pretty clear cut to me



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    What’s not pretty clear cut is do you condone or condemn the acts of vandalism done to the SUV’s!!!



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