rsa supporting e-scooters

I was in Palermo a couple of months ago, and while they were dumped a bit wily nily, they weren't actually blocking everything in an ignorant manner, so maybe the authorities down there have mandated zones. I can understand why DCC are moving slowly though. I don't tend to be in Dublin City Center all that much these days, but on evidence of my last trip - albeit the 6 Nations final day mixed with Paddy's weekend - space is more than ever at a premium.

Just to clarify my previous posts, I'm not at all against dockless bikes/scooters - I think they have the potential to provide a very flexible and valuable service in many cities. As with anything else though there's a cohort of users who don't give a flying that sour it for everbody else plus businesses aren't going to do anything about it in the absence of a big stick

Funny how older Parisians came out to vote to ban e scooters while the younger crowd who are presumably mainly escooter users, didn't bother their arses. Maybe too busy making molotov cocktails, who knows?

Legal on private land.

The Road Traffic and Roads Bill 2021 passed the last Seanad stage on 24 May.

It's now back to the Dáil for the rubber stamp (hopefully) the day after tomorrow Wednesday 14 June at 19.04.

Hopefully not long to go now although I am confused by news that it would not be finalised/enacted until the late summer/early autumn...

It can be pushed after it is signed in to law, to be enacted later by the relevant minister, in this case it would fall on Eamon Ryan's desk to enact. Sadly (after how long it has already taken).

Completely false equivalence. Unless you're suggesting that the same standards should be applied to eScooters as cars? Tax, Insurance, Driver Tests, Safety Standards etc? But I'm guessing you were just being flippant which doesn't really help the discussion.

That's fine. But this is a thread about eScooters not enforcement of RTL across the board. As soon as you go down the whataboutery route, a discussion is dead. I've been consistent in saying that I think eScooters can contribute a lot to tackling car dependence. I've also been consistent in slating the head-in-the-sand approach adopted by the Govt./ legislature, which has caused the Gardai to effectively shrug their shoulders. Everybody is aware of the intended limitations to be imposed on eScooters and eBikes yet we consistently see models which pay no regard to those limitations. The one I referenced is of the type that's designed to comfortably keep pace with buses on the road. It's a bit disingenuous to try and equate car use and the dangers of driving with high powered eScooter use and the dangers of using them. Or the standards to be met before putting a new car on the market versus selling a new eScooter in a shop.

FWIW, the lack of consistent enforcement of RTL (or even awareness of the laws amongst the Gardai) also drives me mad.

Well, it's whataboutery insofar as this is a thread specifically about eScooters. If we were talking in a thread about enforcement of road traffic legislation generally and someone started banging on about the dangers of eScooters, I'd be in full agreement. But it's not. I'd love to see a proper discussion about them rather becuase everywhere else its either "they're great... whatabout cars" or "they're terrible, they use footpaths and don't wear helmets".

It's almost as though the Govt., too afraid to show some actual leadership on road use, are hoping that populism and trial by media will do their job for them. If they'd simply legislated properly 4/ 5 years ago then we might actually be in a position where people can buy them in full confidence, the Gardai could enforce actual legislation as opposed to personal grudges, and Revenue/ Customs might be able to do something about the sale of non-compliant models. And IMVHO, the roads would be better for more of them in use.

If someone wants to start a new thread discussing the merits and demerits of enforcement of RTL across the board I'd probably find myself in full agreement of all the points made above.

Or, maybe I'm completely wrong and this thread wasn't intended to solely discuss eScooters?

Your last question is a good question. It does appear that it may be the case and with also a Max 500w continuous motor rating but there is a maximum weight restriction of 25Kgs. It may be necessary (but I am not sure about this) to take the pedals off the bike and replace with footpegs so that the bike clearly is no longer a 'pedal cycle' as there is no longer 'physical exertion' but can be classified as a 'powered personal transporter'.

However, I think the minister can add some extra restrictions in terms of weight and power.

The 25Kg is unladen weight including batteries for powered personal transporters. Most normal 250W ebike's would just come in under this weight. Cargo bikes probably not. Throttles, strictly speaking are not illegal. It just that the motor power must cut out when pedalling/physical exertion stops. Some ebike conversions come with a configurable throttle that allows different options e.g. in my case, Throttle can be made to work without pedalling up to 6 Km/Hr. Beyond this speed, motor will cut out if pedalling stops. This may be legal but I am not 100% sure.

I tried looking at the link above, but it seems too much like work to figure out all the amendments put in place.

I see mention on here about weight limits and stuff.

Is there a chance that this bill is so granular that it becomes unenforceable on the roads or streets? I mean, how are gardaí to judge the unladen weight of an ebike on the side of the road? And does anyone know why such a weight restriction was put in place?

I know it's pretty much a free for all at the moment, but is that likely to change one the bill is passed into law?

Presumably the weight limits are enforced at point of sale.

I can legally buy a car, never pay insurance or tax on it and drive it around a private field, or a private racetrack.

No more than buying a quad bike, which I’d imagine the number that are registered and insured are tiny, or a dirt bike.

I'm probably not explaining myself very well. Basically if they're allowing PPT's which aren't pedal/ human assist, I don't see why they'd keep that restriction on ebikes. There's no human assistance on an e-scooter or segway, so why insist on ebikes? (If they have)

I think its down to history or how things evolved. Traditionally putting a motor on a bike made it a mechanically propelled vehicle and as such was illegal. However a case was made in Europe and elsewhere that using a small motor with speed restriction to assist the cyclist could be made legal by exempting it from being classified as a mechanic propelled vehicle.

European directives reflect this. for example, if you look at EN15194 2009, the term 'Electrically power assisted cycles - EPAC Bicycles' is used rather than e-bike to refer to such an electrically assisted cycle. Their definition of EPAC is given on Page 7 as

cycle, equipped with pedals and an auxiliary electric motor, which cannot be propelled exclusively by means of this auxiliary electric motor

Moving forward to the present, I think the intention of the new road traffic act is to leave the e-bike or EPAC position as it traditionally or basically is and kept more or less in line with European standards etc. and to go ahead and introduce a new category of PPT's to facilitate the newer scooter type two wheeled vehicles.

However, we will have to wait and see. It may well be the case that there is a bit of a loop hole in that a bike with a full throttle could be legal as a PPT under this new law. The fact that the law is confusing can sometimes work in our favour.