Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Options
17947957977998001190

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I'd have Baird ahead of Henderson on current form tbh



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    It depends how they want to use the warm ups, they might only use the players that will make the final 33, and playing Romania won’t get players up to speed, so there’s potential to select a heavily rotated side and then go full-strength for Tonga and use that as a warmup for South Africa.

    The selection against Italy could be like the selection for Romania, and the selection for England and Samoa could be like the selection for Tonga and South Africa.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    What’s your 33 then? In what position are you cutting a player?

    Basically, one way of looking at it is 3 players per front row position and 2 players per every other position.

    So to have 3 scrum-halves another position must be short, or a player that can cover two positions must be selected.

    Same if you select 3 out-halves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    I'd have 5 back row, and only keenan for full back. So 3 scrum half and 3 out half.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    depending on the players available you could go with 5 back three players if youve a midfield who can cover a back three position (a la ringrose), or youve a midfield who can cover 10 (a la frawley)

    while 2 per position outside of the front row is a nice easy way to divvy up the places, having players who can provide decent cover in various positions creates the option to bring 3 players in important positions like 9 and 10.

    does bringing jimmy o brien negate the need to bring 10 players to cover 11 - 15, yes it probably does.

    also having beirne and baird in there negates the express need to bring 10 plyers to cover 4 - 8



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Would you select Baird as a lock or back row? And which player would you choose at lock if Baird is a back row? Assume it’s either McCarthy or Treadwell. In which case I’d say Coombes is better value as a squad player as he covers 4, 6 and 8.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,358 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I think you are probably being over simplistic. Generally there are players in the squad that can cover, especially in the back 5 so they won’t pick say 10 back 5 players and probably something similar in the second and back rows, a bit of wiggle room with players like Baird that can cover a couple of positions. I’d say we are looking at 3 full front rows 3 scrum halves and 3 out halves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Id bring Baird as a lock. And id bring whatever player was in form at the time (warm ups and camp) as the last backrow option. Coombes is definitely an option.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Be interesting to see how Osbourne gets on in camp. I could see the argument for taking him over Frawley, if Farrell takes 3 OHs.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My 33 would be the following:

    Hookers (3): Sheehan, Kelleher, Herring

    Props (6): Porter, Healy, Loughman, Furlong, Bealham, O'Toole

    Second Rows (5): Ryan, Beirne, Henderson, Baird, McCarthy

    Back Row (5): O'Mahony, van der Flier, Doris, Conan, Coombes

    Scrum Halves (3): Murray, Casey, JGP

    Out Halves (3): Sexton, Crowley, Byrne

    Centres (4): Aki, Henshaw, Ringrose, Osborne

    Back Three (4): Hansen, Lowe, Keenan, O'Brien

    I acknowledge the selection of Loughman over Kilcoyne looks unlikely. I've also gone for Jamie Osborne over Stuart McCloskey (though I view this unlikely) - Osborne's versatility means he can cover multiple areas in the Romania & Tonga games IMO. If you don't have injuries, McCloskey is a third choice 12 and only a 12, so doesn't make sense to me to bring 3 12's in a 33-man squad.

    Crowley & Osborne can also cover the back three. Coombes wins out over Prendergast as I just think he's the better player right now.

    Would also argue that if Crowley is thriving in camp, and Farrell has faith in him, there is an argument to bring Ciaran Frawley ahead of Ross Byrne, and then Osborne mightn't make it and you could select another back three player (Nash / Earls etc) or more depth elsewhere.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    As I see it, the likely squad makeup is probably 3 hookers, 6 props, 4 locks, 5 backrows, 3 SHs, 3 OHs, 4 Centres, 5 back threes

    What position Baird travels as is an interesting point of discussion. He was named in the 6N squad as a backrow, but was used as a lock when Beirne and Hendy got injured. (Although I think McCarthy might have got in ahead of him had he not get injured). So even though he's named as a backrow again, it's very possible he travels as a lock, even though I prefer him at 6. He did play very well at lock during the 6N.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    The one thing I notice with that is one injury to Doris or Conan, and you have no back up 8. You would though have a ton of guys who can play 6 well. I never really thought about that before because both have been so healthy.

    In terms of role, there is no real analogue to coombes in the ireland team, which makes me think he won’t go as he isn’t a natural fit in the gameplan.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If its a long term injury you bring someone in. If its short term both Doris and Conan are well capable of playing 80 minutes.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    It's rare to have an extra 8 benching. If both were injured short term Prendergast would probably slot in and if there was a serious injury there's no shortage of backups a plane ride away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Who would be the option for that? Deegan comes to mind, but hasn't gotten to feature at the top end. Coombes as you said is different style of 8. Prendergast is even less experienced. From the likely squad, perhaps Baird could be decent?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I personally think Deegan is the closest. A little surprised he isn’t more involved. He is a really good player.

    Prendergast, Baird and Beirne are all natural 6s to me. POM can play 6 or 7.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Just one of long list of lads stuck in the queue unfortunately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Conan, Doris, POM and VdF have been healthy to an improbable degree frankly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Apart from the ultra specialist positions (hooker, props, SH and OH) you can only have at most two guys for each position in a WC squad, and in some cases only one. The simple reason being, you can't take 45 players. No team is going to be taking more than two 8s. So if somehow both Doris and Conan get injured in a warmup, we'll have POM, VDF or Prendergast playing 8.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    If we took baird, prendergast, and POM/Doris/Conan though, isn’t that three 6s at least?



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Beirne a possibility too. Pretty sure he played there for Scarlets a few times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Could see that if they wanted a heavier pack. Have Henderson or maybe McCarthy partner with Ryan and Beirne at 6



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    If we take Baird AND Prendergast, Baird will be there as a one of the 4 locks



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well my argument was I wouldn’t bring both of them, so I’d still have one or the other (in my squad a few posts later I selected Coombes).



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Oh, i didn’t mean you in particular. I meant that your post in general just made me realize that about our overall squad.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, 33 is tight whatever way you look at it.

    Even though I included the likes of Jamie Osborne in my squad, I would be very surprised if he made it. Maybe if he hadn’t had the injury he had this year but who knows?

    I think he’ll focus more on picking just the best player available in most scenarios rather than overly focusing on versatile players who give a lot of coverage. He’s never picked his teams or squads in that style, and the way the draw works, we’ve our two softer games up first, followed by basically a cup final every week.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I think a 19/14 split leaves it a bit bare in the backs, especially if we view all scrum halves and sexton and Byrne as single position holders only.

    I think an 18/15 split is more likely, due to the closeness of the tournament. I wouldn't at all be surprised if there was a mini camp happening shortly before the pool stages in carton house, where they next 10-12 players were being put through their paces.

    I assume that wouldn't be against any rules



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    He did but he was poor and isn't an 8 at all. He wasn't nearly dynamic enough in the loose to play there and that was back when he was far more prominent in loose/wider play than he now.

    I recall the Scarlets named him at 8 in the Pro14 final against Leinster in 2018 and we were delighted. It significantly reduced his influence. I'd consider POM far more of a live option.

    Regardless, it would be unfortunate in the extreme if we were in a situation where Doris and Conan were unavailable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    The only thing I'd highlight about Osborne is that, despite not playing for the last 3-4 months and being uncapped, he was still named somewhat unexpectedly in the squad. Whatever he has done in the Irish camp in November and February must have impressed the coaching staff.

    He's an outside bet but I think he's an interesting one for a proper bolter. He ticks a number of the boxes that the Irish staff like. He's a very big, physical guy, covers multiple positions and has an absolute monster of a left boot.

    I think a lot will depend on the make up of the squad. I assume we're going to go with 19 forwards and 6 halfbacks leaving 8 spots....Aki, Ringrose, Henshaw, Keenan, Lowe and Hansen are nailed on. Then we've JOB who is very close to it, one would assume.

    I'd back Earls for that final spot given his experience and I think the coaching staff like what he brings to the group as much off the pitch as on. But a genuinely versatile option would also be tempting for them. It wouldn't be outlandish for them to take only 5 props or 5 backrow players (with Baird as a lock) but I'm leaning more towards the 19/15 split right now. The presence of Crowley also gives a bit of leeway in terms of versatility and strengthens the Earls inclusion.



  • Advertisement
  • Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    You mean 19/14 split?



Advertisement