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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Juran


    Look back as posts, you'll see it there.

    I dont care what nationality people are. But there is clear trend with what a previous poster refer to as "con artists".

    Hope you dont mind your tax money going to fund con artists ( unless you are enjoying Irelands social welfare system)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,998 ✭✭✭trashcan


    You’ve actually got that the wrong way around. As the term asylum seeker merely refers to someone who has made a claim, by definition they can’t be fake (regardless of the merits of their claim). They are seeking asylum regardless. On the other hand it is entirely possible that someone might get through the system with a false claim ( you’d want to be incredibly naive to believe otherwise). Therefore I don’t think it’s unfair to say there can be fake refugees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Nope.

    A refugee has been granted that status. Therefore cannot be fake.

    An asylum seeker however, can claim asylum based on lies or fake information, they are not truly seeking asylum as the claims they are making are fake/not real/untrue. Therefore not genuine asylum seekers. Investigation into the claim should find out the truth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,998 ✭✭✭trashcan


    You’re wrong. Are you saying that every refugee has told the full truth ? You do realise the facility is there to withdraw refugee status if you are found to have lied ? And again, asylum seeker means you have made an application. Nothing more.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh no, not white man's burden at all — simply an appreciation for how the world has always worked (people gravitate towards where they believe there is prosperity), combined with the Western upholding of the rule of law and individual rights, easier and safer travel between countries, and the fact that all these things combined mean that in the absence of us adopting policies to mercilessly brutalise migrants and refugees it's probably more logical all round that we try to make the best of it. But making the best of it is simply never going to mean that we strike the perfect balance between what is absolutely best for Ireland and what avoids the inflicting or exacerbation of the suffering of people who have done nothing to deserve it.

    Does this include the chancers, the country shoppers, the unskilled economic migrants coming here under dubious pretenses? Are we hellbent on importing an underclass and a different one with extra social issues for Ireland? Is that making the best of it? Have we learned nada from other's experiences? It seems not, as others are seeing their mistakes and tightening up, while we throw the doors open. Japan has the rule of law and individual rights and safer travel between countries. They don't feel the need to look after the world on the back of some misplaced charity. They care more about Japan and the Japanese. And they're right.

    So it's all well and good to call O'Gorman a gobshite for the stunning intellectual crime of failing to get it all right in the aftermath of a global pandemic shutdown and one of the most significant displacements of people in Europe since the Second World War and our first experience of such a surge of refugees since we became a wealthy country capable of playing a more contributory role — but show me the person who would have nailed this with nothing but universally good outcomes for Ireland and maybe I'll vote for them.

    Covid is long over as an excuse. Indeed the same shutdown should have given ample time to actually work out better practices. The previous governments handled the Syrian refugee crisis well enough and that war was as destructive and had similar numbers of refugees. Previous people in his post didn't send out flyers across the interwebs in different languages to come to Ireland promising fast tracking and open door accommodation within months, most of which were languages of known sources of scammers, sources that even Varadkar namechecked. You couldn't make it up. Only O'Gorman did. He made Ireland, already a soft touch, softer than a nonagenarian's knob on.

    O'Gorman another of the happy clappy Green party, the majority of whom are clearly out of their depth and hardly a week goes by without one of them dropping a clanger of surreal daftness. They also know they're pretty much history after the next election. I'm an environmentalist to my marrow and I can understand some in leafy suburbia who make sure they put the right things in the right coloured bins might have voted for them in the past, but in my humble anyone who votes for them now is either a close relative, deluded, or a smoothbrained imbecile.

    If the stance of the EU is hardening, so be it. Better approaches are needed to try identify those cheating the system, but likewise there needs to be an appreciation that a collaborative sharing of the burden is a better way forward than allowing a small host of countries to do it all for us. I dare say thought, regardless what way it goes, it isn't going to appease those who believe that assisting refugees is contingent on ensuring that it neither disrupts, exacerbates or creates any domestic issue in Ireland.

    Or, crazy idea, go the Australian route and across the EU with it. For a start the numbers of ships sinking and people drowning fell off a cliff after they changed things around.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Juran


    But sure thats the problem. The system cant seem to prove fakes, and when they do reject AS or refugee applications, they dont remove them from the state. Mickey Mouse deportation orders. So call them what ever name you want, the system is totally flawed, and con artists will kep coming.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭sonar44


    Correct.

    The wacky counter-argument to this goes - if you perform surgery on someone and kill them and you are subsequently struck off because you conned your way onto the register or 'list', you cannot be sued for damages as a fraud, because at the time of surgery, you were a qualified doctor.

    This is literally the level of intellect you are engaging with.

    Post edited by sonar44 on

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,940 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Maybe I am missing something fundamental here (probably am), but if asylum seekers can work now under a recent ruling, why do others require a visa, pay for it, get accommodation, and the employer has responsibility to ensure the employee is legit?

    Why bother going through the visa process when you could just rock up and claim asylum, then apply for the job you were looking for anyway. Employer is off the hook because the employee is an asylum seeker without a visa.

    Scratches head.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    So if there were no Ukrainian refugees here where would the money go ??



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30




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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Now now the refugee money is separate to other money spent. Sure it's from a separate department n all!



  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭WheelieKing




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Nope, I'm not saying that. Asylum seekers can tell lies, but once they have been granted refugee status, they are refugees. Yes that can be taken away if certain things happen. doesn't make them take refugees though. The law says they are refugees, they are refugees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Because if someone wants to come here to live and.work, why would they apply for asylum and live in direct provision on 38 euro a month?

    That wouldn't make any sense

    If you want to go live and work in the USA, are you going to claim asylum there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    They can live outside Direct Provision and if they have job arranged its certainly easier than trying to get a work permit for eg low income work .



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Maybe we should be giving out more work permits to more nationalities then?

    I wouldn't have any issue with more visas been issued.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,024 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Yep ...you are missing something there!

    Go back and read the thread , from the start;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,940 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Ah well, judging by the number of posts you have made so far along with the day shift, surely you could summarise it for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,024 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Oof was going to , but after that barb, you can read it up yourself.. g'night .



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,940 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Maybe it was, but some prolific posters consider infrequent contributors to be brain dead. I am not. Gnight yerself and good wishes too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,024 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Ah that was not my intention honestly . I was laughing because the post was funny not at you. G'night .



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭baldbear


    There was a Brazilian lad on alot of media outlets a few weeks back claiming asylum. And this is exactly what he was at.

    We as a nation are been taken for a absolute ride. The governments failed immigration policy is increasing racism.

    Ukrainians should not be receiving full social welfare benefits the moment they land here. It's crazy.

    People want a responsible immigration policy. I saw a story this last week of an Algerian(safe country) failed Asylum seeker. He was issued with a deportation order (voluntary) and then went on to sexually assault a school girl. Jesus this government are fools.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,998 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Not disputing that, you are right, legally they are refugees, but some refugees might have their claim granted based on a false story. Surely you concede that’s possible ? If, for arguments sake, someone has their status revoked because they lied, then we can call them fake refugees, yes ? The law no longer says they are refugees in that scenario.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Absolutely they can. It shouldn't happen and I would hope that an investigation would actually find the truth. Some people may get through on false stories, but I would believe most would not.

    If they do, then they are refugees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 86,107 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    If they use false documents, I would not put it past them to use false stories



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,940 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    No worries, life's too short for any aggro!

    Good thread, following and lurking with interest..



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭sonar44


    You need to follow the circular logic proposed to fully appreciate its beauty. If a fake story leads to you being a refugee, that story is actually true because only refugees are refugees.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭Tipperary animal lover


    Sonar .... that sounded really like a Kamala Harris line



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    Lucas from Brazil sure looked oppressed when it turned out he was on holidays in Australia a few weeks before. Oh the horror



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  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭sonar44


    What kind of stories are ‘most’ Albanians presenting given their recognition rate in Germany for example, is 1%.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



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