Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

A global recession is on the horizon - please read OP for mod warning

Options
1244245247249250322

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,977 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's another big number on the fear factor feed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,919 ✭✭✭enricoh




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭brickster69


    UK inflation stays as it was. Markets 50/50 on a .5% interest rise this week.


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I'm sure we simply won't do it. We've been pretty consistent in our stance on CT





  • Re AI & economics, the thing it is asked to do here is predict human behaviour, which is affected by as many variables as the weather itself. As per chaos theory it is very difficult or impossible to compute what the future weather will be in any particular locations at any particular time, but climate trends have been well predicted since I can specifically recall back in the the 1980s. By extrapolation more localised climate trends have been predicted and it’s starting to pan out as the models suggested. We still can’t predict far ahead when certain weathers will happen to make timely planning decisions for our holidays. Likewise in economics it has been difficult to predict exactly how a business you might think of setting up will fare when you have it up and running, there are so many things that could crop up and make your business model no longer a runner.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭brickster69


    It is significant because a number of small regional banks mainly in Italy do not have the reserves in the bank to pay the loans. The vast majority have ample funds to pay and ample to keep borrowing, these small regional banks relied on those loans to keep going basically.

    They have assets like mortgages and bonds but they will get in a worse state if they have to sell them. With 1 trillion of liquidity being sucked out the banking system banks are going to be a lot wary who they borrow to. Maybe government steps in to help out, but someone will have to.

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...and add in the problems rumbling in the shadow banking system.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    if you are saying they don’t have the sufficient funds then the physical payment is not an issue as they would have been failing stress testing and LCR ratios for a long time and the regulator would have already shut them down or forced them to merge. It’s not like in the USA where regional banks are not monitored.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Oh, is that right, where did you get that from ? Italy has more than 50 banks alone if you include the small regional banks, the stress tests are based on the percentage of assets not number of banks. Which means the small regional banks do not undergo stress tests just the main big banks who hold the majority of assets.

    And look under what conditions they were tested for after the loans were handed out never mind before. Probably rumours but i have heard that some banks were handed out loans of 30 times more than actual value of the bank itself.


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    Info all there on the ECB website. Would need to be a very small bank Or a branch of a non-Eu bank and even then they would still have more regulation to comply with than US regional banks.





  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭brickster69


    We are talking about stress tests and now you go on about supervision which is stricter than the US, that is good.

    The stress tests were carried out assuming scenario's in the future. They are worthless now, the whole situation has changed for all European banks. Don't get me wrong it is probably a tiny number out of the 5100 banks of which 50 were stress tested and hold 75% of all assets.

    The ECB pumped unfit banks full of cash at negative rates, banks bought bonds and lent money and now bonds and mortgages can't be sold because banks would lose a fortune. But now they have no cash because they were borrowed more money than the whole system had. In fact they have to borrow money just to have nothing in the bank.

    What would you do if you knew your bank had no reserves left and needs to borrow money at far higher rates to pay off it's debts ?

    Probably same thing happens as in the US this Spring the big banks take on the little banks for pennies and shareholders get wiped out. Sounds familiar doesn't it ?


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Amazing really what happened in one year.


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    We were talking about regulation (stress test, LCR etc.). European banks hold more capital and liquidity than US regional banks as a result. If they were not solvent this would have been clear to regulators before any repayment of TLTRO…The physical repayment of TLTRO should have no impact.

    The rest of your post does make sense because

    • - Negative rates cost banks money the US never had negative rates
    • - unlike the US the EU no longer uses interest corridors so banks placed more money on deposit with ECB instead of buying gov debt.
    • - if EU banks went long on Gov Debt like US regional banks they would have been penalised and would have had to hold more capital to cover interest rate risk
    • - The US regional banks treated non-retail deposits as Retail and didn’t the regulator failed to monitor large depositors effectively. As a result deposit book held more liquidity risk. EU regulation would have highlighted this risk under its LCR/NSFR.

    Yes banks can still get into trouble and fail which they should if not managed correctly but the regulations should be there to highlight the risks so the regulator can take action early doors. The EU has the regulations in place…the US regional banks didn’t have the regulations because they exempted regional banks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭brickster69


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,499 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Happy anniversary @Deub

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/06/22/uk-rates-surprise-revives-recession-fears-as-equities-slide/

    You can wait for the roof to cave in (if you time it right, you might get out ok) but I will be perched on high (monster box upon monster box) watching your epic rearguard action.

    Best to be positioned before SHTF. Yes its incoming. Even wet dream economy little old Ireland will get steamrolled.

    Touch base with you again chap on the 22nd... August to be precise. BRICS+ conference.

    Got gold? ;-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭brickster69


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,977 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭Deub




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,904 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I wonder what the BRICS Summit is going to do in August that will revolutionise the world and ruin everyone who doesn't have some BRICs of gold squirreled away?

    One of the biggest questions about that meeting imo is will Putin have the chutzpah to turn up in person and create a stink for the South Africans (and probably some of the other attendees)!?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,197 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout




    Not sure what kind of recession that is but they have an unemployment rate of 3.5% at the moment.





  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...international arrest warrant for the putin lad, so.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,197 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    Given how ridiculously complex global economics is, with so many factors at play and feedback loops interacting with each other in impossible to model ways, it takes some amount of chutzpah to predict that that one single future event is going to have a significant effect in one way. Almost conspiratorial to be honest....



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,862 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The Dublin Airport cap is damaging the economy of Ireland as a whole, and must be scrapped forthwith.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I am interested to see how increased interest rates affect the US v UK or even Ireland. In the US, the vast majority are on fixed rate mortgages and mostly <5%, so I don't see the rate increases reducing the disposable income of americans and reducing demand like it will in the UK or Ireland. We will need to see unemployment in the US to get that last bit of inflation, down to target 2%.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,977 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I've seen a thousand similar predictions by this stage. 2008 spawned a lot of this, people predicting that some "thing" will trigger some sort of massive collapse. Example in hand: yesterday or today marks the day some poster in here claimed there would be some financial apocalypse event.

    The key is to keep the predictions deliberately vague and as far away as possible to milk them to the max..



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Never a truer word spoken. Even the experts in charge got everything wrong. Let's have a look.

    We need to get inflation to 2% - Let's print loads of cash and give to the PIGS that will do it.

    Inflation is not going up - Let's print more cash and give to the PIGS that will do it, it's not as if interest rates will go up or anything.

    Oh no we have a pandemic - Lets print more cash

    Inflation is not going up - Let's print more cash and give to the PIGS.

    Inflation is at 6% and and we have negative rates - It's just transitory it will come down soon don't worry

    Putin has invaded Ukraine - Let's sanction them and destroy it's economy

    Inflation is going up - Let's rise interest rates to 0% it's just transitory remember

    Russia are still attacking - Let's put more sanctions on the worlds largest energy and food exporter and seize it's cash and citizens assets

    Inflation is going crazy especially food and energy - Let's raise interest rates to 1%

    Russia has cut off gas - Let's pay 5 times more from our American friends instead.

    Germany's economic minister say's the only reason they were competitive is because of cheap Russian energy - Let's sanction oil as well so we have to pay 50% more while our competitors buy it 50% cheaper

    Inflation is going crazy especially energy and food - Let's raise interest rates to 2%

    Pipeline blows up - Putin did it. Prices go crazy US sells gas 10 times more expensive.

    Let's use Russian funds and give it to Ukraine - 20 new countries apply to join Brics and use their own currencies to trade to avoid sanctions

    There will be no recession - Germany say's it is in recession and energy intensive companies start to move to America and China and exports drop off a cliff.

    Inflation is coming down - Still too high raise rates to 3%

    More countries say they are in recession - We need to raise interest rates to get inflation to 2%

    Mortgage and national debt costs double - We need to raise interest rates to get inflation to 2%

    To be continued

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    South Africa will have no problem with Putin going there, they have been clear that their neutral position on it all is firmly red,white and blue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,904 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Don't want to derail any "wishing upon a recession" talk too much (will stop it after this post) but I do not think South Africa will prevent him coming to the meeting if Russia insists, and (unfortunately) they won't arrest him!

    I think it would still cause them embarrassment because they signed up to the ICC. It is just a headache and would imagine the "BICS" and any others attending the world-changing meeting may prefer Putin dials into it on Zoom!



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    Uk banks have agreed to delay repossession by 12 months



Advertisement