Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

Me too!

?

Why do you people keep wasting your time arguing with him?

The question is a red herring. You and I could both drop dead in 30 seconds and this debate would still rage on. Accusing each other endlessly of suited narratives would bore us both to tears. I will just leave this here, Biden repeated this when he came to Ireland recently, while he was shaking hands with a reception, but I can't find the more recent clip now, the written story will have to do:

Yeah but they're not starting from the same starting point on the current state of the world, the common male is a selectively bred manual laborer with fighting tendencies, the common female is not. It would be fascinating to know if boy/girl twins with virtually identical genetics who had equal nurturing in sport would achieve similar performance.

Definitely but its what is being honed in on by trans sports regulations.

I give up, theres no point

This is the same facially plausible, but misleading argument that was again, once made to exclude blacks from white sports, 'the whites will suffer because everything would be won by blacks - or do you agree that whites have a sporting advantage over blacks'

There is also the central issue here your statement alludes to: inclusion, equality, etc. vs. "but who won?" ('Most people believe that there shouldn't be an end to having separate mens and women's sports as women would lose out when it comes to winning.') when sex is as much a protected category as race, how is that not a bit like saying it's unfair for blacks to be allowed to run for president because they might win?

Not interesting argument and doesn't move anything forward constructively. ICYMI see my biden post above, phone died while I was editing that post you quoted.

Trans women, whether you like me saying it or not, are women. Again, no point repeating yourself there, or I, it doesn't move us forward.

I effectively answered this question substance when I spoke about Darwinian evolution a few moments ago, these apparent differences in the sexes are for a whole host of reasons, anthropological and otherwise. When you account for these factors, as was done to correct biology and incorrect assumptions correlating physical performance to race, you find less actual differentiation than previously thought. One study I linked to earlier (a literature review) found in its study (you can see everything they researched, tabulated) there was inconclusive differences in sporting performance once testosterone was controlled for at least 12 months.

Polls are fine but again as far as I can tell, across the entire spectrum of LGTBQ issues there has been a marked shift right because of groomer panic campaigns: less than half of Republicans now describe homosexuality itself as acceptable. Which has nothing to do with transgenderism or sports, but its being swept up in what is an apparent culture war, along with acts of violents against the LGBTQ community, even acts of terror across entire regions as in the case of US electrical substation attacks last year. "LGB" (trans-exclusionary) activists who are against the trans movement might find the face eating leopards will eat their face after all. Also from Gallup polling:

Race is a social construct too. And?

And yet me a pasty white/ tomato red Irish guy identifying as a black man would be considered racist but no issue with me declaring myself a lesbian woman (assuming I had gender dysphoria and was still attracted to women).

Funny how the culture wars work. However it has nothing to do with sport except it's being hijacked as a science v religion type battle ground in the wars.

Designer babies would be unethical. I can't see it being allowed legally.

You're the expert on the negro leagues, would I have qualified for those. That was when sport categories were based on social construct.

A better analogy if I was a boxer I weigh at least 200 pounds. I could probably make the 200lb cruiserweight weight limit. However even if I identified as being a lightweight (135 lb) I would be disqualified for failing to make weight.

This would qualify for a heavyweight class and if I lost a few pound I'd make cruiserweight.

Another one is I've never had an organ transplant. I don’t think I would qualify for the world transplant games even with a sincerely held belief I had had one.

I think we can add genetics an science to sports in the list of things you know little or nothing about. No need to confirm it for us. It's clear from what you are posting. Males and Femles are not seperate species which can be easily selectively bred in different directions.

It's not just "obvious" that athletes of the male sex have significant performance advantages over athletes of the female sex in the vast majority of sports. There are littereally billions of data points supporting this. Basically its a statistically proven fact. I can point you in the direction of plenty of websites you can use to read the data, so you can try to find any data which disporves this fact.

I don't think that you're motivated by mysogeny, but your arguments are unbeleiveably mysogenistic. You now seem to be argueming that the entire female population lack their own agency to overcome some form of societal manipultion that ensures that they couldn't possibly be able to compete with males at sports. You "solution" to eliminate the male and female categories in sports is hugely mysogenistic in effect, whether that is you intention or not.

Do you realise how massively illogical your post is?

You are pointing out that pre-puberty there is limited physical difference between boy's and girls as far as athletics potential is concerned. We can agree on that.

That implies that there are physical difference between males and females once puberty takes aaffect. (Otherwise ther ewould be no point in bringing up pre-pubesent athletes at all).

So now you accept that there is a physical difference post puberty between athletes who have been through male puberty and athletes who have not. But at the same time you're trying to argue that the only difference bewtween males and females is that they have been conditioned by society to perform different roles. Both of those can't be true. One is wrong since they are mutually contradictory.

There have been studies which show that testorone suppresion reduces the performance gap between males and females. However the most current studies show clearly that it doesn't elminiate the male performance advanttage. Not by a long shot. There are many other factors involved which ensure that males retain statistically significant performance advantages over females even after teststerone suppresion.

Which leads to your next logical inconsistancy. You seem to be advovating for testorone supression to suppress the physical advantages that males have over females. This would imply that trans-women would retain the advantages of their male sex biology without testoserone supporession. If that is the case then that would clearly be unfair to cis-female competiors in the female category if they were allowed to compete in that category. Your basically agreeing that obtaining a gneder recognition certifiacte is not enough to negate male performance advantage. Medical intervention would also be required, if what you are arguing is true.

I'm sure that since none of this has anything to do with American politics, liberlas/conservatives, reblicans/democrats, Biden/Trump, that way way beyond your comfort zone.

And just for you I'm going to define male and female for you in a very thread appropriate context. This thread was orignally about the results of athetes in a swimming competiton. Here are the definitions of male and female from the rules of the Wolrd governing body for the sport of swimming (found here)...

The word “female” means possession of XX chromosomes and (in the absence of medical intervention) ovaries and increased circulating oestrogen and progesterone starting at puberty.

The word “male” means possession of XY chromosomes and (in the absence of medical Intervention) testes and increased circulating testosterone starting at puberty.

The word “sex” denotes natural biological differences between females and males, includingchromosomes, sex organs, and endogenous hormonal profiles. This Policy uses the word “sex” and the term “biological sex” interchangeably

No it's still physics, gravity and newtonian forces don't cancel out because you label it biology.

Link never escaped the clipboard sorry

Statistics that don't prove the exceptions, which are again, still covered by Equal Protection of the law.

Huh?

So an intersex person with only one X chromosome (XO), they're just fucked and cannot compete then. That sounds problematic.

Woah really? If it does, write the paper and put in for the Nobel prize.

Evidently not.