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EU Biodiversity strategy 2030

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭alps


    We have a few CO2 offsets available ourselves for sale at present, while we're not using them..




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,740 ✭✭✭✭Water John




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    Drained grassland peat soils area ‘overestimated’ -Teagasc https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/grassland-peat-soils-area-overestimated-teagasc/

    Overestimated by a whopping 60%, wonder will this make the mainstream media outlets showing land emmisions from these so called brutal peat soil that nasty farmers dug up and reclaimed are 60% less than the so called European experts thought, wonder is it wise calculating land emmisions on shallow reclaimed drained blanket peat soil with science based on data from deep raised drained bog and peat data in mainland Europe.

    Wow, the same land that the bureaucrats were deeming to be unproductive, terrible for the environment and want a forced law on rewetting them and taking them out of agriculture.

    LULUCF stock will be in for a big reduction when the new and improved coefficients are used to resemble this as well as this new research, unless the greens and the eNGOs contest this SCIENCE as it doesn't alingn with their agenda.

    Huge positive news all the same, therefore emmisions from the LULUCF sector in Irrland are substantially lower than previously reported since the EU ETS commencement in 2005.

    Post edited by Jonnyc135 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,657 ✭✭✭White Clover


    Between that now and the fact that we are now aware of the corruption going on in the national broadcaster. We can almost be sure that those framing the anti farming narrative in the media have been bought.

    It is time now to hit back at these and keep the boot on their throats until there is a satisfactory outcome for farmers that have been effected by designations of any sort.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    Crystal clear agenda and narrative being pushed down from higher up the food chain regarding agriculture.

    It's grotesque, personally I think that the elites see that we are in the fourth turning and that we are extremely likely to have a major crisis in the next 10 - 20 years. Civil rights, free speech and private ownership all being quietly dumbed down with new woke regulations and laws which all gear towards totalitarian control of the people in order to 'save' us. Anyway that's my 2 cents, all I know is I'd be extremely shocked and surprised if this ground breaking data if it makes prime time media and radio in a meaningful way.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    I think the vote was 44-44 in the end. not sure if it needed a majority or 2/3rds or something. Either way, looks to be on it's last legs




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    Jesus I actually didn't see that comming, I thought it would be passed then more concessions made at the parliament level, anyway it dead in the water, just goes to show without consultation with the main stakeholders and landowners, pontificating and preaching down to people will get people nowhere.

    Interesting to note, wait till you see the media and how the will portray this as a travesty and how agriculture is so bad - yet to see any big media outlet report that emmisions from peatland are over estimated by 60%.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    The chair of the environment committee who failed to pass what is essentially a law they created says it's not over




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    So basically what we are saying is that in order for this to pass now, it has to go through the parliament and gain at least a 2/3 majority may not be an easy task.

    I presume the more dumbed down Parliament targets for rewetting etc. are the ones that will be now dumbed down even more (concessions for agreement) in order to gain this 2/3 majority. Anyway its all up in the air, the way I see it is it will either not get a 2/3 and fail or will get a 2/3 due to substantial watering down of targets.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    They can't carry on with it as it is. It's been rejected now by the Ag committee, the fisheries committee and now the environment committee. I reckon there'll be serious pressure put on members from the "green" and environmental NGOs to get it passed even though it's been rejected 3 times by different groupings. I'd expect a huge backlash then of parliament overriding the previous committees recommendations. And how in reality could a parliament approve an environmental law that the environmental committee rejected? This law is either dead, or going back to square one.

    Nevertheless, this isn't over. There'll be lots more money pumped in and lobbying galore to get something new in it's place



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    The law was always going to have to be passed by a full vote of the EU Parliament. Actually it was an idiotic move by Weber and his pals to Gerrymander the vote on the Envi Commitee by replacing 7 of his own EPP group with hardliners to oppose even any amendments to the law. Simply means the original proposal will get voted on by the entire EU parliament, including many within Webers own party who don't share his views on the law or appreciate his bullying tactics on this that were quiet unprecedented and have not gone unnoticed by other MEPs, nor his campaign of aggressive misinformation on many of the proposals eg. blocking reasonable measures on water quality, sustaineable forestry and urban greening etc. The Vote on July the 12th will indeed be interesting....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 691 ✭✭✭eire23


    I hope to God it gets rejected on the 12th. Was listening to Some green party member being interviewed on radio one there a while, fantasists of the highest order.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    The GP(especially Ryans version) are kinda of an irrelevance to the bigger issues in this proposal(and similar) and what follows out of it in terms of the shape of the next CAP. Those in Irish farming wanting to get into bed with EPP extremists on this and similar should be very wary of how the next CAP will be shaped in terms of funding for farming in more marginal areas, as Webers ideologues will be fighting tooth and nail to grab as much of the shrinking CAP pot for big agri business while smaller farmers in already financially vulnerable sectors like Hill Sheep etc. will simply be viewed as collateral damage in terms of seeing their supports melting away to maintain the fat payments of the big boys behind the likes of Copa Cogeca etc. As underlined by my earlier point on this thread concerning the EPP voting against giving farmers a steady income in return for restoring overgrazed mountain land, removing invasive Rhodendron etc. that is already impacting farms around my place in North Mayo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭cal naughton


    Padraic Fogarty from the Irish wildlife trust was just on Prime Time . I thought his head was going to explode his was raging!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,734 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    He's a very disingenuous fella. He visited a small scale sheep farm last year that would be all about fauna and dung beetles and doing everything in their power to maximise wildlife.

    Next week he was tweeting of the destructive power of regen livestock farms.

    I get the impression he only has the paw and gob open to get on boards and money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    Jesus christ thats pretty bad now, how could anything revolving around regenerative agriculture be destructive to the environment, soils and water courses.

    Sounds like someone with a serious agenda



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    Joke altogether, watch what they do not what they say comes to mind.

    Alot of people from my area have been onto Marian, and honestly all that was needed was this written stipulation, without this it's bollox it can still be forced upon us. Shows what the government think, this was not a big ask it's just holds the government's words to account something Ireland/democracy doesn't uphold anymore.

    All the while the new Teagasc research that shows that the so called emmisions from this peat soils is overestimated by 60%.

    This land has the cleanest rivers according to the nitrates and phosphates maps, anyway most people up my way are done with this crap, I hope a group of rural TDs come together and form a party that speaks for us I really do.

    It's not as if we are against bio diversity, the western seaboard on this land type are 100% the most extensive and best for nature. Leads me to believe that this rewetting is more about co2 emmisions than bio diversity. Yet the new research shows this is basically a lie, this land is not near as ad as the so called experts said.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'll be tipping along to the meeting on Sunday if I can get time off for good behaviour.

    Fairly annoyed with the blizzard of dictations that is falling on us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    I might have to get you fill me in, sadly I'm caught Sunday and won't be able to go. By the sounds of things they have legal representation there to talk through the legality of all of this. Have to really hand it too them they are the only people who give a **** about anyone farming on peat soil and our legitimate concerns.

    I have been onto Marian to see what her thoughts are in relation to the verbal agreement of voluntary rewetting - my take is that unless its in a written stipulation then its just more worthless sound bites, just waiting for her to come back to me.

    Must say, these people really are the last true public representatives left.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Absolutely, word or gentleman's agreement isn't worth a thing. All it is is soft talk.

    I don't know McNamara but have met Marian Harkin and had communications with Michael Fitzmaurice and they're very decent people, proper representatives.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    An interesting article, 2030 is too far away for GWP* to be introduced, needs to be pushed hard now.

    Hitler and Sri Lanka could have been left out to be honest.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't think I've yet been at a farmers meeting that started on time 😄



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    @Reggie. there's a lad here selling stakes, should I take a punt 😏



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    What was people thoughts of the meeting today, any new information, takeaways from the legal expert that are worth noting



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So here’s some random stuff I wrote down. I’m a terrible note takers so I’m not going to stand over this in court, or my grammar and speeling pisstakes, if others differ, off with them.

    A lot of speakers called for what is most important to myself, retention of control of my own land and destiny in favour of compensation.

    Michael Fitzmaurice talked about the vote in the dail during the week where only 11 TD’s voted in favour of legislation making NRL effects voluntary – The minister keeps saying this but we know past verbal agreements around the habitats directive did not hold. Legal text is needed to protect farmers. An adverse effect of NRL could be if EU/State monies are drawn down on an enterprise, and someone decides that enterprise is harming the aims of the NRL, the monies can be withdrawn.

    Michael McNamara spoke of favouring collaborative work but instead we are put into a battle. That we must have legal guarantees that any NRL action or measure is voluntary, again something our minister has said in words but refuses to put into law. He said it was profoundly wrong, after decades of telling farmers to drain and pull out scrub that all of that now must be reversed without financial aid. He doesn’t believe that society will pay for NRL, even though they will benefit from it, unless it’s voluntary on farmers part.

    James Staines solicitor said rewetting is only a very small part of the NRL. That the NRL is coming in as a regulation and not a directive. The effect of this method is that it can be introduced much, much faster. A citizen or eNGO can sue the state if the NRL isn’t being implemented. The EU Commissions version of the NRL is the one up before a vote next week. The Council of Ministers version is better (I use the word loosely), the Parliament couldn’t agree on a version of their own. He sees no evidence of non CAP funding. Natura 2000 birds and habitats directives become much stronger with the introduction of the NRL. He doesn’t believe the appropriate research into a national NRL plan will or can be done. Rather that it’ll be a messy, crude big red line job based on “European” research like with SAC and not done with accuracy. Property rights in Ireland are not absolute. The State can interfere – planning was given as an example – with no automatic right to compensation. Land can be made worthless through designations, planning will be complicated on non designated land which is adjacent to designated land (or sea – ask me how I know). Experience of previous designations indicate huge problems for farmers with no compensation.

    Ciaran Dolan, barrister, the NRL is NOT VOLUNTARY, it IS COMPULSORY, MANDATORY. The EU Commission is specifically introducing it as a regulation and not a directive. Our Oireachteas  will have zero oversight over the NRL – I note Marian Harkin TD was strongly agreeing with that fact. If the EU Parliament votes for this NRL, the Commission can implement secondary regulations with no oversight from the Dail. Basically EU law overrides our own. There is no compensation for things like public health, but his opinion was there must be compensation for restoration. He gave an example of putting  the weight of making a building special needs accessible solely on the owner  was unconstitutional, that regarding the NRL the Govt & Oireachteas must have regard for the long term burden being placed on us landowners in regards to Just Transition. A very detailed account of habitats must be drawn up in a short time. Will there be a funded appeals process? He believed the SAC appeal regime had worked well previously. Planted peat land may not be allowed to be replanted, leading to a land value of zero.

    Colm Markey MEP

    NRL needs to be voluntary, as mandatory is difficult to fund from legal perspective, although it can get some degree of compensation. It can’t affect your neighbour. It must be incentivised, dedicated fund outside of CAP, private funding. There needs to be a definition of “restoration”. Funding sources are very vague.

    Various comments from the alphabet soup of farm orgs

    Most if not all wanted compo from outside CAP.

    Most wanted voluntary nature to be solid in law, not soft talk from a minster who won’t be there in X years/decades time.

    In the past, monies for these lands had disappeared at the first sign of recession, ie REPS.

    Banks don’t want to know about designated land.

    Incentive led scheme would be better than a feared law for results.

    A farmer could be made reinstate a marsh or grove of trees (just examples) that may have been present in the past.

    Past poor treatment of SAC/SPA farmers.

    Teagasc research on lesser amount of drained peatland was referenced.

    Article 4 a particular problem as wet and dry heathland to be restored

    Article 11 restoration to times at least 70 years and longer ago, those lands may not exist in anything like that state today.

    Cattle & sheep and their subsidies may be removed from hills, leading to massive fuel build up and knock on massive wildfires.

    Article 12 Subsidies that have the effect of interfering with NRL may be withdrawn.

    Low value designated land being bought up by NPWS for €3-400 an acre.

    Land, which it’s only income generating possibility is from state grants with no commercial activity = worthless.

    Income is not the sole issue, but diversification options, planning will be gone.

    A historical note on designated lands, REPS paied €242/ac, then AEOS paid €150/ac, then GLAS €79/ac, and ACRES now €0/ac. Despite all the talk it’s clear the EU/Govt do not value designated land.

    No employed person in society does work for free, save voluntary groups, why should farmers tolerate any different?

    Mention of Ireland saving the world, versus carbon emitter like China or rain forest destruction in Brazil. Latvian peat, Brazilian woodchip all got honourable mention. Is climate change ONLY happening in Ireland/EU?

    Farmers being driven off land through reduced payments.

    Birdwatch Ireland attempted to highlight opportunities for farmers. That agri environmental schemes were very popular. That they need to be funded more. Apparently you cannot rear a family on 50 dairy cows. Raising the water table should be looked forward to as a drought mitigation action, that it is not land saturation. That there are no land designations within the NRL. Made remarks on the now defunct Burren Life. That nothing will be burdened on farmers, the legal burdens are only on the state (I have a pre loved dam in Ukraine to sell you if you believe that). Michael Fitzmaurice interjected that EIP’s were voluntary and that was the whole point.

    To be fair NPWS did send someone on their day off, but I had stopped caring by then. Sorry.

    There was some people there that shouldn’t be let out without adult supervision. The risk that is public meetings. I thought the moderation was poor. 



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