Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

If we have to split hairs and shift the goalposts of the users argument then I've made my point. Now we wring hands over which 1500 m event. 🙃

Why bother with the fallacies? 'every true scot thinks your argument is nonsense.'

I do not. I stand by my posts on the matter and am confident I have shown women that meet world championship 2023 qualifications by definition have met the male championship standards of previous years.

I did. Simply looking at one male competitors times (Bruce Jenner), we can see that his 1500 m time for the 1976 olympics was slower than the 2023 minimum time for women to qualify for their 1500 m. If he qualified for the mens, and their times are faster than the mens, the logical deduction is right there, they qualify as world standard for men as defined in 1976. We've shown that the definition of world standard is shifting, and not absolute.

Wouldn't that be a general thing however that would effect the standard in sports for both sexes? Down to primarily sports science and advances in training across the board?

It's a fairly straightforward fact that in general males that have gone through puberty hold significant physical advantages over females who have gone through puberty. Not just in testosterone levels but in certain physical aspects. Never mind the fact that biological males, even after 'transitioning' don't have to deal with periods and/or childbirth. Which in itself is a significant advantage in many aspects of life and sport.

There are many out there who don't seem to want to accept these very basic logical facts and would prefer instead to see women's sport eroded to the point that women may decide to no longer compete as if more biological males compete their chances of success are severely curtailed, never mind the risk to their lives if punching, kicking or physical interactions occur.

I don't really understand the rush for men to invade women's sport or indeed the cheerleading for it in general.

No doubt there's gonna be plenty what aboutery and deflections to a post like this as there have been in the thread but the facts above are irrefutable.

Sure. I pointed that out more or less when I posted the image of Jenner's times and scores, I said: "I wouldn't want to directly compare the state of competition in '76 with '23 for all host of reasons though either (Fallsbury flops, equipment changes, rules changes, and other paradigm shifts, etc)."

That is true in general, and again, these generalities do not address the exceptions to the generality. Female athletes on various forms of contraceptives or that have had procedures like hysterectomies wouldn't deal with periods, either. But you have dismissed this as a whataboutery or deflection so I will assume you were hoping to hear an echo.

Like who? Nobody here that I am aware of. Unless @y0ssar1an22 was being completely serious just now that is.

I don't understand the rush to ban trans girls from sport when in some states with bans there's only as few as 6 girls that are trans competition in sport. It's dumb and it's far from an 'invasion' or the end of biological girls competition in sports, not over 6 girls in 1 state.

No, I don't. The subject is far more grayscale than that I'm afraid.

its worth a discussion. if there aint no biological advantage to being a male, do away with gender in sports and just have all folk compete against each other.

The is of course the crux of the matter.

If someone is of the opinion that men and women are equal in general when it comes to physical ability and physical traits (which is complete nonsense) there's little point having seperate categorisations in the first instance.

Who are the losers if that happens - the women. I really don't know why this fact is so difficult to grasp by some.

If a person cannot/willnot/refuses to accept or acknowledge these very basic facts there really is no point in engagement.

Stop interacting with him. You're all wasting your time.

If you're implying that's my position you don't understand my position. As I have said repeatedly, generalities don't prove the exceptions. I do not in principle disagree that in general men and women are not physically equal, the menstrual cycle aforementioned is a prime exemplar for that. But it has not been my argument to contest otherwise.

When they meet the recruitment age.

You stated there were 6 girls that were trans competing in sport in a particular state. Seeing as the thread is about transgender men competing in womens sport I made the logical assumption that these were biological men taking the place of biological females in a female category.

There's no gun to be jumped here. That's essentially what the thread is about. If you are introducing some more whataboutery - fine. But lets call a spade a spade.

It wasn't that logical actually to equate "girls" to "men." Unless you're trying to assert that high school boys are all men in the eyes of the law?

This is absolutist nonsense. Compete at what? In all sports or just some sports? Esports, Motorsports, Gunsports, those physical differences don't matter? But this overly broad argument says there is zero sense and letting men race cars against women, play apex legends or Starcraft against men, etc.

I'm not tying myself up in anything, what don't you understand about my statement?

What, exactly are you accusing me of condoning?

We've been discussing that very thing.

You are conding biological males competing with biological females in the same categories in sport - which is wrong.

Look, if you want to continue with the whataboutery and being obtuse - fire away. I frankly couldn't give a damn.

You are further trying to muddy the waters when challanged on your viewpoints.