Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

How is it "wrong?" ex cathedra argument? And I'm the Pope...

Your allegation doesn't hold in totality. I don't condone biological males competing with biological females in all the same categories, in all the same sports, in all the same cases. Where I especially have no problem with biological males competing with biological females is where that distinction makes little difference, I have mentioned several examples (eSports, Motorsports, Gunsports, etc, many of which mightn't even bother to divide competitors by sex). Your statement above says those kinds of open competition are, put simply, "wrong."

How dare I clarify my viewpoints when people challenge my viewpoints? Because it's a discussion site. Muddy waters? It's not a black and white issue, are you complaining about the inclusion of gray area, such as how to regard the intersex population and those who never underwent puberty?

Thats literally the definition of being obtuse.

My ten year old can compete in "e-sports" as can a 50 year old. Men can compete with women because physical attributes and biology don't come into it.

You'll find that mens physical advantages mean that women generally cannot compete with men in motor sports.

Lets get back to the thread title.

The conern that people rightly have is biological men taking the places of biological females in sport - to the detriment of the participation of biological females in the sport.

If the "sport" currently does not have "Female/Male" categories I don't think people are too concerned around what sex the competitor is..........is that relatively obvious?

You would make the assumption that the sports that have male and female categories do so for good reason - this is where the issues lie and where biological males should not compete against biological females.

Should biological males, compete with biological females in 100 yd and 400 yd races?

Please accept my apologies.

The bans being imposed for sport are what is obtuse, as the legal challenges against them have been pointing out.

It is obtuseness to, for example, ban trans girls from girls high school and middle school sports, who have never undergone puberty, because of a moral panic about post-pubescent adult, prime-age transgender women/biological males winning olympic womens races etc.

Simply put I don't know, and the answer to your question either way isn't firmly yes or no. The sports bodies over that particular sport should deliberate that in conjunction with their athletes and communities. Does a biological male who has been on hormone blockers since 4 years old, have unfair advantages over biological women when competing in say high school 400 yd sprint? I don't know.

Personally, it is my opinion that if a 10 year old biological male wants to identify as a female and the sport they wish to compete in has male/female categories, they should be competeing in the male category. There are numerous rational reasons for this. Nothing obtuse about it.

You don't know? It has to be a firm yes or no. Get off the fence.

The example you give - biological male, shouldn't be alowed compete with biological females in sports that have those categorisations. Simple

A ten year old male who wants to be a female - thats fine. But if that ten year old male wants to play sports that have categories they compete in the Male categories. Why? Because ten year olds change their mind and haven't fully developed brains. I don't see why their "point in time" "feelings" should be foisted upon the biological females of that age.

What actually defines a ten year old trans girl these days anyway - is it just a boy who says he wants to be a girl or is there a deeper test?

Oh, there has to be a firm yes or no. Otherwise you don't accept that biological males have advantages over biological females that you seem to have accepted earlier in the thread.

Lets take a step back.

What is a trans girl?

Can a trans girl "change their mind" at any point?

Foisted as in, certain people dont seem to be too concerned about the psychological development of the ten year old biological girls who end up competing with and/or sharing changing areas with biological males.

It has to be a firm yes or no, someone has to make that decision.

Do people not realize that it's highly unlikely that a male person who took puberty blockers at a young age and then went on female hormones would be a competitive athlete? A person who has never reached their full growth and potential couldnt do that (just add it to the list of damaging consequences of transitioning children). That's irrelevant to this discussion, which is about adult males who transitioned later in life competing against females. It's just more muddying of the waters

It's not muddy at all. A person born as a biological male should not be permitted to compete against a person born a biological female in events that have a male and female classification.

No matter what the age.

If people aren't happy with that then they can 'grin and bear it'.

Throws all the arguments about "fairness" and "safety" out the window

Are you claiming cis male children are biologically advantaged to cis female children? Have you some evidence of this?

Whats "cis male" and "cis female"?

Biological males are biologicilly advantaged versus biological females - so thats one point - the studies are out there - a quick google search will find a few of them.

Are you claiming that male and female categories in sports are pointless and have been for all these years?

Thats one aspect of it. Then there the aspect that I have asked above - what is a "Trans Girl"? Can a trans girl change their mind? Where to trans girls shower and change when required? Because this is also a major issue for kids.

Theres plenty of it out there......otherwise why have male and female categories in kids sports or sports in general at all?

Why not answer my questions......

So it’s a vague sweeping argument then and not “certain” people.

A large Australian study showed that the best boys outperformed the best girls from age 9.

As for a trans girl who has had puberty blocked and never went through male puberty, I stated before (can't remember if it was this thread or not) that while I think such treatment is entirely unethical, provisions can be made in rules for such edge cases.

Girls should still have the right to refuse sharing changing and showering facilities with them, as they are still male bodied.

In general though, anyone who has gone through male puberty should only ever compete in male categories.

Trans men who have not undergone testosterone treatment can compete in female categories. If they have had testosterone treatment, they can compete in male categories at their own risk.