Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Caquas · 25-06-2023 11:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762577#Comment_120762577

On the contrary, Prigozhin would be a very welcome guest in Kyiv. So welcome, they wouldn't let him leave.

Of course, he'd be on his own because his murderous mercenaries will be far away, dying from "friendly fire"

TheDriver · 25-06-2023 11:21am

There are a number of indicators why this wasn't some PR stunt or false flag

a) his speech about lies to invade Ukraine. That's very blunt and anti Kremlin line

b) shooting down Russian helicopters etc

c) Russian media weren't prepared, no Kremlin PR spin immediately on TV. They were caught off guard too

d) civil unrest in towns enroute eg rostov. This gives fire to a cause.

e) the missile strike on Wagner group. It seems to be confirmed that it was Russian MoD that did it.

Wibbs · 25-06-2023 11:23am

Put it this way and outside a Russian context, imagine this:

The US has her own private military contractor force, Blackwater. What happened over the last few days would be like the head of Blackwater in the middle of I dunno the war in Afghanistan goes on social media bitching about Biden and the US military leadership. Then he gets his men to go marching towards Washington with his private army, on the way shooting down a couple of US helicopters and a plane, takes a major US logistics base with tanks, while Washington can’t seem to stop him and barricades the city putting trucks up as roadblocks. Biden then goes on national TV calling for severe punishments for the traitorous mutineers of Blackwater.

Then the Mexican PM calls the head of Blackwater and negotiates a peace and full pardon for him and Blackwater, while hinting at getting a few of the US generals sacked. And then quietly goes back to base. And Biden pardons them all.

And all this happens in a day.

If a Hollywood hack came up with that script he'd be laughed at. But that's what happened in Russia.

briany · 25-06-2023 11:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762577#Comment_120762577

Assuming that were to be attempted (and we're really stretching the limits of possibility at that), Ukraine has had over a year to heavily fortify that whole flank virtually uncontested and plan. You don't even read anything about Russia firing long range weapons at those positions. Think of how little progress Russia made in its Winter offensive from the east, and then extrapolate that to a line where Ukrainian defences are extremely well established at this point and we can rightly conclude the much larger headache would be Prigozhin's.

AerLingus747 · 25-06-2023 11:27am

anyways...

Formal request for F-16 training was received by the US from the Dane's with regards to training Ukrainian F-16 pilots, during the week.

relax carry on · 25-06-2023 11:52am

With all the chaos yesterday, was Ukraine able to take advantage to make some more gains?

Brussels Sprout · 25-06-2023 11:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762731#Comment_120762731

Honestly, who knows? They made some vague statement about gaining ground in the east but also that they had gained a village a week ago but were only announcing it now. I saw rumours that they had crossed the Dniepr in Kherson but haven't seen any evidence of that or heard anything more about it since.

Realistically it all happened so quickly - from start to finish in 24 hours that it's unlikely to have had any short-term effects on the front-lines that the UAF could take advantage of. Hopefully it has sewn long-term problems though that will manifest themselves in time.

Igotadose · 25-06-2023 12:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762625#Comment_120762625

And, hey, the sister of the head of Blackwater was a cabinet officer in the government prior to Biden's! Extra goodies for the plot!

Francie Barrett · 25-06-2023 12:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762608#Comment_120762608

The missile strike by the Russian MoD on Wagner was clearly created by Wagner as a pretext to start the coup. As demonstrated by US intelligence, this insurgency was in the planning for weeks.

Wibbs · 25-06-2023 12:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762756#Comment_120762756

Oh it's always about the power and following the money concentrated in a few hands. But the US has control of private outfits like Blackwater. The very idea they'd run a potential coup/march for fairness towards Washington and then be all pardoned and never mind, with their leader in exile in Mexico with more cash mere hours later is beyond fantastical.

JohnJoe1000 · 25-06-2023 12:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762577#Comment_120762577

Huge headache. Yesterday turned into a very bad day all in all for Ukraine. There is absolutely no positives to take from the outcome.

antodeco · 25-06-2023 12:13pm

In fairness if you took what happened the last 24 hours and replaced them with the Fast and Furious crew, it would 100% be part of the movie franchise.

A group of mercenaries secretly working for the government plan an attack on government buildings to rescue their friend but then the government step in and give them pardons and release their friend on condition they go to Brazil with lots of money and nevermind a out all the damage caused along the way

BorneTobyWilde · 25-06-2023 12:14pm

One thing we learned is Putin is not the leader of Russia, and should be totally ignored now by the west. He should be called out and mocked ferociously for his weakness yesterday.

Christy42 · 25-06-2023 12:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762781#Comment_120762781

They did at least have it confirmed that Russia has next to no reserves left. Though Wagner causing more damage to Russian forces would have been ideal.

Francie Barrett · 25-06-2023 12:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762731#Comment_120762731

Bakhmut direction:

- 600-800 m on the northern flank

- 600 m to the south-northeast of Ivanivskoye

- 500 m in the area of the Siverskyi Donets-Donbas canal

- 300 m between Ozaryanivka and Mayorsk

- 500 m in Bakhmut (!)

Vasylivskyi direction:

- 300 m in the direction of Robotyny

- 400 m south of Pyatikhatok

All of the above - not in one day, if anything.

There are successful counterattacks in the Avdiiv direction, the fighting continues. Previously, about 100 meters of freed land in the depth of the ranks of the occupiers.

On the other hand, in the area of Masyutivka (Kupyan direction), the enemy advanced 250 meters, but ours counterattacked and drove the occupiers back to their starting positions.

https://t.me/myro_shnykov/3884

amacca · 25-06-2023 12:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762781#Comment_120762781

?????

So, its a good day for Russia then??

Igotadose · 25-06-2023 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762817#Comment_120762817

On a day when the casualties are from RuZZians killing RuZZians, is a good day for Ukraine. Following days, who knows, but life is day to day during war.

JohnJoe1000 · 25-06-2023 12:26pm

It's not unexpected that Russia has a soft underbelly when so much of their fighting force is committed to Ukraine. Wagner faced no resistance right up until they where within a couple of hrs driving distance from Moscow. As a nuclear power they don't fear invasion from any other country so didn't keep much back.

A military coup is the only realistic threat and Prigozhin seemingly overplayed his hand. The Chechens and Belarussians sided with Putin and, whilst the rest of the Russian army hardly showed unwavering loyalty to Putin, no other significant forces came out in support of Wagner.

Wagner could probably have stormed the Kremlin and holed up for a few weeks we'll never know. All the people that they needed to be choked off for the uprising to stick - Putin, Gerasimov and Shoigu - would have been bunkered off elsewhere plotting. Without wider support it would have been futile - although still greatly beneficial to Ukraine, as it turns out all Ukrainians will be disappointed with the outcome.

I'm afraid that Putin has come out of this rather well. Even more so when you consider he will dictate the narrative over the coming days and how all consuming the propaganda is.

Danzy · 25-06-2023 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762781#Comment_120762781

Thanks for giving us the latest Socialist perspective on the matter.

Another day like that with such solidarity building and internationalism between Russia and Belarus and the reactionaries in Kiev would collapse.

The Russian position is so strong that 25k soldiers can leave the front line for a weekend road trip, don't see any of the Kiev regime on holidays.

amacca · 25-06-2023 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762826#Comment_120762826

It was an absolute shitshow for Russia I would have thought and that means it cant have been a "very bad day" for Ukraine as that poster stated...........the question marks were incredulous...I'm waiting with amusement for their justification for the statement.

JohnJoe1000 · 25-06-2023 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762817#Comment_120762817

I don't think so as Putin survived to fight another day. Then again Prigozhin was a very very dangerous man and that's someone you don't want sitting in the hot seat either.

amacca · 25-06-2023 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762849#Comment_120762849

Contrast what happened yesterday with it not happening at all....which would be better for Russia.

I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct · 25-06-2023 12:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762781#Comment_120762781

utter nonsense

zv2 · 25-06-2023 12:38pm

...

https://twitter.com/DannyPunton/status/1672770125563592704?s=20

JohnJoe1000 · 25-06-2023 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762856#Comment_120762856

This time yesterday there was a chance of a civil war/popular uprising/civil unrest etc.. within Russia that could have resulted in the Russian army being pulled from Ukraine to deal with it. 24hrs later that is not going to happen and it's as you where. Which would be better for Ukraine?

This isn't rocket science lads. Many analysts on TV are saying similar this morning. I never said yesterday was a win for Russia but it was a bad day for Ukraine when you consider the possible outcome.

Brussels Sprout · 25-06-2023 12:39pm

Ok

JohnJoe1000 · 25-06-2023 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762863#Comment_120762863

Well rounded argument.

I guess Boards hasn't changed all that much within the last couple of years.

JohnJoe1000 · 25-06-2023 12:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762880#Comment_120762880

Oh look another one pointing out it's a new account.

The "Putinbot" comments will be along in the next few minutes right on time.

It's pretty sad that a lot of posters on here can't handle a counter argument and are happy enough to have their little echo chamber/safe space.

I signed up to this new account willing and able to discuss matters around the conflict but i can see many of you aren't interested in discussion on a "discussion" site. I'll go back to my original account from 2003 now with my point proven from my original 1st post as to why Boards is dying a death.

25-06-2023 12:50pm

Anyone who takes these past days at face value is very naive. People have been telling us the whole time not to believe Russia, we have had so many predictions of false-flags, propaganda, deepfake videos etc. Now there was an attempted coup playing out basically live on tv and people immediately take events at face value and believe it was exactly what it seemed? Stupid.

The purpose of PMCs like Wagner (and Blackwater etc) is to do bad things and give plausible deniability to the government.

This incident should be viewed with that in mind. Tactical nukes have been moved to Belarus. Now this 'renegade' mercenary group are moving to Belarus also. Putin has gone on TV and denounced them as traitors. If Wager get hold of nukes and use them against Ukraine, Putin will wash his hands of it. 'Russia had nothing to do with this, you saw that they don't take orders from me any more'. Maybe even he blames Lukashenko and uses it as an excuse to go into Belaraus and 'secure' the remaining nukes.

It's a worrying development.

amacca · 25-06-2023 12:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762876#Comment_120762876

So thats your argument eh? Well the day before that it hadn't happened and Russia didn't look quite as fractured and incompetent so it can only have been a good day for Ukraine as now theres even more blood in the water........to use a probably poor analogy, if this was boxing match Ukraine may not have drawn any blood but Russias trainer and backroom team are arguing amongst themselves in the corner and meanwhile it looks as if their fighter has a couple of self inflicted cracked ribs from hanging around with dodgy characters in the neighbourhood.

Yesterday can only have been a bad day for Russia not Ukraine by any sensible measure.

astrofool · 25-06-2023 12:51pm

No one can argue with a straight face that putin is in a better position than 24 hours ago.

Zero people are more afraid of russia now than 24 hours ago.

If something similar happened in the states (and to be fair, the closest we got was a bunch of idiot trump supporters storming the capital building and that was hailed as an embarrassment for the US) then all the anti-NATO heads would be furiously writing their obituary.

The fact that no one is really surprised shows how little the world thinks of russia.

astrofool · 25-06-2023 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762906#Comment_120762906

Likely re-reg calling blanket statements a "counter-argument" and then goes off in a pre-huff as they know what comes next :)

Literally 0 arguments or evidence.

Just:

"Mars must be feeling better today after what happened, I feel really good about Mars, look at how controversial I am, you all can't handle how good the planet Mars is."

I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct · 25-06-2023 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762883#Comment_120762883

stop the trolling

Rawr · 25-06-2023 1:03pm

One thing I don’t get; surely Prigozhin must know that Putin & Co won’t let him live put the rest of his days un-murdered. Not taking out the Putin regime pretty much guarantees that he’ll always need a 100% loyal security detail at all times while the threat of revenge still exists.

Being in Belarus is no protection at all, and he should know that too. By not advancing on Moscow he’s given up all the leverage he had to prevent himself and the Wagners from having window-related accidents in the near future. I don’t understand how he thinks Putin will go out of character and actually respect an agreement.

ejmaztec · 25-06-2023 1:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762897#Comment_120762897

2003 account? I don't think you're allowed to have two Boards a/cs at the same time, any anyone who does must be a fool to admit it, unless of course it isn't true. 😋

odyssey06 · 25-06-2023 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762781#Comment_120762781

Absolutely warped way of viewing it.

How did it turn out to be a 'bad day' for Ukraine? What did they lose versus where they were? Nothing. Ergo it cannot be a bad day for Ukraine.

The spin you have put on it is blatant and yours alone.

I don't know what angle you think you're trying to sell here, but nobody is buying it.

SortingYouOut · 25-06-2023 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762980#Comment_120762980

Their views. They probably should have said something like "in my opinion...", as nobody knows what has happened here or how this will fair out. Have seen it discussed on the news plenty how this could go a way that worsens Ukraine's situation and have seen plenty say the opposite.

but nobody is buying it.

In your opinion, unless you have implanted yourself into all of our brains.

Edit: Typo

ArtyM · 25-06-2023 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762625#Comment_120762625

Gerard Buttler plays the head of Blackwater.

Martin Sheen plays Biden, or Oprah Winfrey if Disney\Netflix are making it.

Working title is Blackwatergateageddon or Pennsylvania I'm avin u

odyssey06 · 25-06-2023 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120763007#Comment_120763007

They didn't though did they?

So why are don't you reply to them then? Nobody knows, right so when someone makes a statement that it was a bad day, you're said they have no basis to make that as a statement of fact. Did you 'buy' it? Evidently not.

You appear to be disagreeing with them, saying there's no basis to declare that. Or are you? Do you even know?

Utterly bizarre post.

If you have suggestions as to how another poster should have posted, reply to them.

EltonJohn69 · 25-06-2023 1:42pm

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1672926675032592386?s=20

I also often have confidence that I will get tasks and plans done… then I open an early beer/packet of biscuits and inevitably nothing gets accomplished….. he will do nothing/he is on borrowed time/the mask is slipping/not a strong man (old and weak) a cornered rat, time for the shovel to come down on his head

Wibbs · 25-06-2023 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762905#Comment_120762905

I take your point and putin is very good at this sorta thing, or has been in the past, at least within Russia. Where I would doubt it is in every case before Russia had her spin ready and hit the ground running before, during and after the BS kicked off. We see this with every new spin from Russia, no matter what it is. You only have to read one Russian bot/supporter and you know exactly what the others will say almost to the letter and you know what the Kremlin want them to say. They all sing from the same hymn sheet, the same script, provided by the Kremlin.

This Wagner stuff had them reeling. Their bots, supporters and media went mostly silent and where they did pop their heads up their spin was all over the place. Total confusion. Why? Because they were improvising. They hadn't received the Official Script from the Kremlin, because the Kremlin were reeling too and hadn't written it yet. Even today the script while somewhat settled is all over the place trying to "explain" how this is still a win.

25-06-2023 1:49pm

Still no word from “whistleblower” and “free thinker” Chay Bowes. Imagine moving to Moscow to work for Russia Today and the whole place pretty much falling apart a month later? You’d almost feel sorry for him. I’d say Paddy Cosgrave played him like an old fiddle.

yagan · 25-06-2023 1:50pm

I don't think either Pirgozhin or Putin give a crap about what the world thought of yesterdays march on Moscow, he made his point by lack of military opposition. If his mercenaries now assume positions of control in the Russian army then that is not good for Ukraine. The plan to take over Ukraine might be over, but now the goal could well be to make the Dnieper the new Russian border in order to retain Crimea.

BorneTobyWilde · 25-06-2023 2:30pm

It's scary how easy it is to take over a country that has no defense like Ireland. Wagner could roll in tomorrow, and take over in hours

SortingYouOut · 25-06-2023 2:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120763034#Comment_120763034

I didn't reply to them because there was no benefit in doing so. It was obvious that it was their own views built upon off the back of the news, they just could have worded it better.

I've watched a number of news interviews now with people who share the same views as this poster, but they state it is a theory and a possibility, which is a given?

You don't need someone to state their views as theory, it is obvious in a situation like this.

You are saying nobody is buying what they are saying, which is claiming fact from your own opinion as well.

IdHidden · 25-06-2023 2:38pm

It doesn’t matter what the Russian plan is, they are such a failure. A laughing stock. They couldn’t even organise a mutiny properly.

However the Pro Russian bots will be trying to spin this fiasco as in some way bad for Ukraine, by using their usual fact and reality free propaganda method, post and go.

Danzy · 25-06-2023 2:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120763243#Comment_120763243

Russia had enough to defeat Wagner, even just locally in the South what it didn't have was enough or maybe any that were willing to shoot them, that's the problem for the Kremlin.

rogber · 25-06-2023 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120762731#Comment_120762731

I think they were caught off guard too. Like some posters on boards they got a bit over excited yesterday and said civil war had started in Russia.

Today the official tone is quite different "most ridiculous mutiny ever...change will never come from within Russia".

The whole thing was over in a flash, really

Strazdas · 25-06-2023 3:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120763318#Comment_120763318

Many a civil war has started with this type of innocuous incident. But Russia is a law unto itself of course and doesn't seem to follow any established patterns - even many experienced Russia watchers were quite baffled by many of the events yesterday, including the conclusion.

Drumpot · 25-06-2023 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120763243#Comment_120763243

I’d find other things more scary and more likely, like how unprepared our country is for even things like a bit of ice on the road.

We’ve learned f**k all from the pandemic , would anybody be confident that we’d handle a future one any better? How prepared are we for drastic changes to the climate or raised sea levels? I mean even a solar flare could take out our entire electrical system and we’d be f**ked.

That’s not even discussing financial collapse or some sort of cyber attack that could cripple us.

I believe something happened in Canada a while ago , where there was severe ice for weeks that ended up destroying parts of their electric infrastructure. If you think about how fragile our own is , you’d have sleepless nights.

Personally I believe we should have contingency plans that include education of population and actual people constantly preparing for all possibilities. In this day and age that is not a hard thing to do but the will doesn’t seem to be there.

Im sure people will quote some panel of emergency experts that are dragged together at times but I’m talking about events that include the loss of satellite/electric benefits. What contingency’s for post communication etc?

It’s funny cause I always think of the 10th man idea. If we had something like that as Covid was making its way to us, perhaps we would have been more prepared to handle it.

They’d be things I’m far more concerned about then a rogue invasion. I dont trust our complacent society/government are proactive at risk mitigation, we just panic when something goes wrong and look for somebody else to blame…

Sorry; rant over ..

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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