Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

“The only people who should be housed are people that cannot house themselves. So completely based on need.”

@suvigirl do you see any ceiling in terms of numbers at which this isn’t feasible as a matter of interest?

There are millions of people in need around the world. If a million additional people showed up over the next few years would you still hold that opinion? They’d for the most part be more in need than the majority of Irish people. Would it be our priority to house them all first?

But "if" they get to stay and their families are able to relocate, they don't stay in the same area. If 150 refugees are put in a community centre in a small town or rural area, they aren't going to be staying there permanently. So I think it's not quite a fair point to say that this is causing permanent significant population increases in specific rural areas.

Denmark has a similar population to us and for quite some time has been one of the net contributors to hosting refugees over the years. Indeed, several of the Germanic and Nordic countries, alongside Greece, have long been left to handle the problem while many other European states took in numbers well below the averages (including ourselves). The point is illustrated on graph you can find here: https://www.nrc.no/shorthand/fr/a-few-countries-take-responsibility-for-most-of-the-worlds-refugees/index.html#:~:text=In%20Western%20Europe%2C%20it%20is,refugees%2C%20at%200.03%20per%20cent.

Denmark's reaction can essentially be characterised as one caused by the failure of other countries, ourselves included, to share the burden. Meanwhile, this is our first experience of an influx that has placed strain on our system and people are going on like we are on the brink of an apocalypse — and yet point to what they see as the common sense policy of Denmark, a country which has done disproportionately more than most EU countries to cater to refugees and has take far more than we have.

The point remains however that being super restrictive can have its advantages, but ultimately if we all start replicating that then the inevitable outcome is that a smaller number of countries have to deal with the numbers alone. It is better for all to do their part than to let a small number of our international allies do it all alone.

Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly, I meant people in the country should be housed by need. I'm not suggesting that it is a duty to house people from other countries. Once they have been accepted into Ireland,housing should be based on need.

I have never suggested unlimited amounts of people should be brought here. We take refugees in quotas in refugee programs. Asylum seekers cannot be turned away, however, they should be dealt with much faster, as in weeks, not years for their claims to be dealt with.

"I was very lucky to get it"

You kinda answered the question yourself there?

Regardless of what factors a person believes are the main contributory factors to improved gay rights in Ireland — is it not a fairly acceptable thing to say that gay rights and gay tolerance 40 years ago in a more monocultural Ireland were not as good as they are now in a more multicultural Ireland?

If migrants and refugees from these countries are the threat to gay rights that you seem to be suggesting they are, why has their arrival and continued presence in Ireland not correlated to Ireland becoming a worse place to be gay?

See my above post re the Sligo murders.

What do you mean though by "not wanting to align"? I mean, even Irish people themselves today don't even align with what Irish culture was when they were growing up. If our grandparents had been given visions of the atheist / agnostic, gay loving, abortion defending, Church-bashing broad minded Ireland of today they would have had convulsions. Lots of migrants and refugees/asylum seekers come here and perfectly align and integrate. It's just that news stories about the many Nigerian families going about their daily lives as normal people in our country are not gonna get any clicks and do nothing for an agenda — but a news story of a Nigerian dude doing some bad thing becomes THEY WON'T INTEGRATE.

As for the government "choosing" to house asylum seekers over students, well, where should we send these asylum seekers then? Regardless of what we opt in and out of there is still an overarching principle across international law that asylum seekers at the very least have rights and we can't just brutalise them, treat them inhumanely, leave them for dead, or send them to the Moon. I don't own a home and have had to move a lot over the past 3 years, but I don't expect that my interests in having a home should absolutely invalidate and take all precedence over everyone else. There is a refugee crisis which has erupted over the past year and it's hard to handle this is in a way that ensures absolutely no negative outcomes for Irish people as a pre-requisite of the policy.

You keep repeating about 'certain cultures'

Which cultures is it that you're worried about? One person committing murder does not equal a whole culture of murderers.

As I said, they live here and are living here under our laws.

On the whole gay rights thing, it should be kept in mind that the anti-refugee crowd in Ireland are frequently anti-LGBT as well. It's very noticeable that they talk a lot about the supposed threat that refugees pose to women, but they have very little to say about gay rights and how it ties in with asylum seekers coming here.

It's actually funny that the anti refugee movement seems to consider Ireland to be such a utopia of tolerance that no other cultures could possibly be as tolerant as us!

You just have to see the shitshow about the anti-hate speech legislation, or the push against trans rights in this country to prove this idea wrong! It's been legal in this country since 2015 for people to change their gender, yet it appears that the country are anti hate-crime legislation because they fear they won't be able to argue against that!

Attitudes towards travellers in this country are far from tolerant.

The least tolerant people in society appear to be the ones that are so worried about other cultures lack of tolerance! 🙄

I have read it, and while I do believe there may be issues with the constitutionality of the legislation, given vagueness in law has been deemed unconstitutional in the past, I have no objections to the actual legislation, in theory. I would prefer that it is watertight before publication.

Plenty of threads on boards to discuss, it's totally off topic here, I was merely pointing out at those people who are against such legislation and are anti trans rights, seem to be an overwhelming majority anti refugee also.

hypocritical, but that appears to be standard for a lot of Irish people.

Eh.. YOU are the one who brought up the Hate Speech bill?

However you illustrate here exactly the flaw with this and all of your arguments. You admit the legislation may be so flawed as to be unconstitutional, yet you are happy to see it proceed.

In the real world however, just as with the wider topic (as I replied to you on the last page), theory, ideology and idealism don't do too well in the Real World in which we live I'm afraid. This Bill, just like the approach to immigration is a mess that ignores the reality and goes against the will of the majority who've commented on it.

You also by the way seem content to ignore the cost and wasted time that legal challenges to it will raise - costs that will no doubt be borne by the taxpayer AGAIN I'm sure.

I guess it's easy to grandstand and be virtuous when it's other people's money and other people who will bear the consequences!

As with so much else, I suspect that certain members of Government will be relieved to see that.

Not because they agree, but because they've painted themselves into a corner on this one and let the HSE.. whoops sorry I mean NGO's - got confused there for a sec! - dictate policy on this issue, regardless of the mess it's become.

This way they have their much used "get out of jail card" and can claim the EU "made" them change the approach!

The numbers of asylum seekers coming to Ireland are not especially high per capita compared to any other country in Europe. One could understand the need for a big debate on immigration if we were a major outlier and taking far more refugees per head than elsewhere, but it's simply not the case. The only thing that has really changed is that the anti-refugee movement has become far more vocal in the last year or so and is making much better use of social media than it did previously.