Is it time to join Nato

coolbeans · 26-06-2023 6:22pm

You don't want me to do that tbh. You're against the war in a let the Russians have what's theirs kind of way. You hard leftists with your notions of moral purity nauseate me. You were banned on that thread and here you are again promoting your peacenik let evil be done as long as we have nothing to do with it spiel.

Run Forest Run · 26-06-2023 6:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769220#Comment_120769220

Then they should be easily defeated... no?

And yet here we are, yet again, mired in another never ending military conflict.

You're getting sucked in by the hype and propaganda. Like so many people have in the past.

We were told how backwards and pathetic the Afghans and Iraqis were. (Not to mention the Vietnamese - going much further back). Have you forgotten all of that? Those crafty Taliban didn't give two fooks how great or powerful the cocksure yanks thought they were. Two decades toiling in the desert for nothing. And some useful idiots in the west, think the Russians can't pull off the same thing here? lol

(the same type of bird-brains who likely think NATO is some all singing all dancing dominant military alliance)

The Russians will draw this thing out forever. And we'll be duty bound and committed to this conflict FOREVER... another fine mess by our genius western leaders.

the.red.baron · 26-06-2023 6:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769328#Comment_120769328

If nato put boots on the ground or even provided proper support them yes easily defeated

The Russians are the laughing stock of the world, they might even defeat themselves

It's Russian created this mess, they are responsible

The real light it has shone on is the wasted of money spent to defend against a country of morons

the.red.baron · 26-06-2023 6:48pm

The only people who made even a bigger mess of Afghanistan was the Russians

Now that was a moronic mess

Run Forest Run · 26-06-2023 6:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769260#Comment_120769260

You're a chancer. Nothing more.

You're putting words in my mouth that I never said, just to suit your agenda. Lazy.

The reason I was banned on that thread, is because there is a cabal of pro-western imperialist zealots who run that thread. If you're not on the big imperialist warmongering train, you're persona non grata... that thread is a hideous revolting pro war gore fest. It's best avoided by anyone with an ounce of civility or self respect. Getting banned from such a thread is a badge of honour as far as I'm concerned.

coolbeans · 26-06-2023 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769374#Comment_120769374

Blah blah, and the efforts to support Ukraine are a proxy war by the evil USA and NATO against poor, innocent, mild mannered Russia just trying to do its own thing according to you. Useful idiot is a phrase very suited to you. Now, jog on and shill for Wallace/Daly etc. Sure you've got it all figured out.

Btw, being banned is a sure sign that you can't debate.

Run Forest Run · 26-06-2023 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769350#Comment_120769350

Right, well that's obvious... NATO is a massive group of nations.

Russia is just one nation. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a big grouping of nations would defeat one nation... has anyone ever seriously suggested that Russia could take on a massive alliance of nations on their own and win? I've literally never seen anyone make that argument?

But we are watching a nation heavily supported and backed by NATO nations, and they are struggling to defeat Russia. This is a Russia that has been consistently characterised as being weak and pathetic and generally a bit useless on the battlefield... so this naturally begs the question of why this weak and pathetic military power has not been defeated yet?

It's not a particularly great advertisement for NATO military capabilities or expertise on the battlefield...

That is, of course, if you're simple minded enough to swallow all the propaganda about the Russians and this war. Which unfortunately many people are...

Sudden Valley · 26-06-2023 7:08pm

Given we would be committing to spending a chunk of our gdp on military equipment definitely yes. The government would have to indicate what public spending they would be cutting to cover it.

coolbeans · 26-06-2023 7:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769447#Comment_120769447

Your lies just keep coming. NATO is not at war and no matter how much you wish it it does not make it so.

Run Forest Run · 26-06-2023 7:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769397#Comment_120769397

Your CIA paymasters gave you the wrong intel.

This is Ireland. We don't use terms like "jog on"...

Like I said, lazy effort... you're very transparent.

coolbeans · 26-06-2023 7:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769483#Comment_120769483

As I said, useful idiot. Every one of your posts serves only to entrench this point. Thank you.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to submit my expenses to the CIA. It's the end of the month like 🤣🤣.

the.red.baron · 26-06-2023 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769447#Comment_120769447

They got their asses handed to them by a much smaller nation man, the Ukraine , it was shamefull of course they couldn't defeat NATO with a proper army navy and airforce would whoop ass it would be a joke

I'd say it's shamefull to be Russian

Run Forest Run · 26-06-2023 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769478#Comment_120769478

I never said they were.

Do you really believe all the propaganda around this war? Or do you just WANT to believe it?

Anyone with even ounce of common sense, has got to be questioning the garbage they are being fed in the media at this stage, when they see the actual results on the battlefield...

Run Forest Run · 26-06-2023 7:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769559#Comment_120769559

That's a very interesting ass-handing... why are they still occupying Ukrainian land so?

You've been duped, and duped bad my friend.

Like I said, our western leaders have gotten us into another pointless never ending war. And it's because so many of our citizens are so easily fooled by propaganda. They wouldn't be able to get away with this nonsense without it.

Podge_irl · 26-06-2023 7:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769465#Comment_120769465

Are you proposing referenda for everything that involves spending more than 1% of our GDP? Deciding spending priorities is close to the primary reason we elect a government in the first place.

coolbeans · 26-06-2023 7:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769562#Comment_120769562

Your problem is you think you know it all. NATO is holding back because, as I said, it's not at war. It's aiding UKR in a limited way.

You should stop appealing to common sense, as even you must realise it's not common and adds nothing to a debate. It's a meaningless nothing phrase.

The media is not one unit btw. There are thousands of credible and not so credible outlets. Just shouting... but the media... is the siren call of a buffoon who thinks they're onto something that nobody else has realised. That's the reality, it's cloudy, it's nuanced but that doesn't suit your apologising for the Russian gangster state narrative.

Tony EH · 26-06-2023 7:36pm

If ever there was something that should be put to the people in a referendum, it's whether we should or shouldn't join a military organisation.

And I would absolutely be voting no on that.

nachouser · 26-06-2023 7:37pm

We're not joining NATO.

the.red.baron · 26-06-2023 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769596#Comment_120769596

Their whole army has been decimated

No tanks

Thats how you lose a war, their mercenary wing which was doing kost of the fighting has run off

This is the late stages of defeat

Tony EH · 26-06-2023 7:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769018#Comment_120769018

A referendum is a basic pillar of democracy. You're, literally, put the choice before the people. It's difficult to think of something more democratic.

Sudden Valley · 26-06-2023 7:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769603#Comment_120769603

No just it adds to a number of cons of joining nato coupled with getting into a military alliance with garbage regimes like Turkey . Without a referendums I think it will increase the support of sinn fein and that s something I wouldn't want. They also didn't get elected based on this idea so they have no authority from the people to do this.

Podge_irl · 26-06-2023 7:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769685#Comment_120769685

It is not the stated policy of any of the government parties to join and its not remotely imminent.

However, demanding a referendum of matters of state that are already constitutionally solely the purview of the Dáil is a questionable precedent to set.

Sudden Valley · 26-06-2023 7:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769696#Comment_120769696

If a party has it initially in its election manifesto then I would agree but if not then why not bring it to the people through a referendum. Joining a military alliance is a big decision so it would be pretty underhanded to vote on getting rid of along standing national policy without consulting the people either through a manifesto or referendum.

the.red.baron · 26-06-2023 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769696#Comment_120769696

Sure everything is the purview of the Dail untill it isnt

For something as big as this you should ask the people, just like joining the eu etc, enshrine it in the constitution

suvigirl · 26-06-2023 8:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769663#Comment_120769663

And in what context could this be put to the people? What constitutional amendment is required?

Podge_irl · 26-06-2023 8:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769728#Comment_120769728

What makes you think any party would do this without it being in the manifesto in the first place? Nonetheless, governments need to react to situations that are very different from when they were elected and we elect them to make those decisions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769730#Comment_120769730

Joining the EU required a referendum. I suspect if in some distant future the government mooted joining NATO there would be cases brought to test the constitutionality of the decision without one also.