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President Biden closes gun control speech in USA with 'God save the Queen'

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    #662
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769847#Comment_120769847

    Awkward moment with Dr. Jill but that looks to be a comedy of small errors in international WH visit protocol.

    Apologies, I thought it was the awkward moment with Dr Jill you were referring to as a comedy of errors rather than anything Biden did.

    I don't wish to misrepresent you, if you don't think Biden looks presidential in this clip then we're in agreement.



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    #663
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,507 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769890#Comment_120769890

    What is Presidential though, there's no standard to it and it's so subjective.



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    #664
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769919#Comment_120769919

    Exactly, that's why I said we can agree to differ.

    Even before we get into the hand holding comedy of errors, I think Biden's performance during the Indian national anthem is about as symbolically unpresidential as it is possible to get, but your mileage may vary.



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    #665
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769755#Comment_120769755


    I haven't looked into the finer details of Indian diplomacy and Indian culture, but given that Modi looks awkward as well would an indicator that this hand holding routine is not something he interprets as respect for Indian diplomacy and culture.


    Neither Biden nor Modi look awkward there in all fairness. It’s common for Indian men to hold hands, it’s also common for them to use their left hand instead of toilet tissue. It does look like Jill might have thought twice alright 😂



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    #666
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770108#Comment_120770108

    Fair enough.

    801031-article-kvbrwrkapf-1451099760.jpeg




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    #667
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 29,542 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770412#Comment_120770412

    Your premise was based on nothing though. Mere supposition.

    Then you to to be proven wrong 'led by the nose to the correct answer' ... to a standard you did not provide in making the accusation or show any objective interest in finding the answer to yourself.

    Strange that.

    Your accusation against Biden as we now see originated from your ignorance of the customs. It was without merit.

    You would think someone who has to admit they are so obviously wrong would reexamine the flimsy basis on which they throw out accusations.

    Something to bear in mind next time a similar flimsy accusstion is posted to the thread. The burden of proof is on those making such accusations.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #668
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770454#Comment_120770454

    What is the exact accusation I made against Biden that you've taken such an exception to?



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    #669
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Perhaps it was this:

    The hand holding thing is very odd.

    Notice when Biden does get to his wife he goes to take her hand too, initially she accepts his hand, and then she appears to realise something is not right, drops Biden's hand and goes round the other side to Modi, and there is an uncomfortable few seconds where she hesitates why/how/if to hold his hand too.

    Then ends up in the most awkward position of all, as she takes Modi's right hand in her right hand!

    Truly bizarre stuff. If any of those here who follow US politics closer than I do can explain what's going on it would be much appreciated.

    Saying that I thought the hand holding thing looked very odd and uncomfortable and asking if anyone could explain what was going on is not exactly an accusation against Biden.

    I erred in my presumption that because the author of the tweet saying Biden was "holding the hand of an autocrat thinking it is his wife’s" was Indian, that the hand holding was not a regular occurrence in India.

    That presumption was wrong, and that is what I admitted as soon as I realised it was wrong.

    Accusing Biden of looking unpresidential because he mistook the Indian national anthem for the US national anthem is the accusation I made. It is far from a flimsy accusation without merit.



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    #670
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770536#Comment_120770536


    I think the flimsy accusation was a bit more than just the idea of perceiving Biden’s behaviour as ‘unpresidential’, it may have been the inference in suggesting that it should be taken as evidence of something more than physical ageing -

    I still don't think Vice President Joe Biden would have mistaken the Indian national anthem for the US National anthem. Because I think the comparison between his speeches, gait, demeanour etc between then and now is clear evidence of something more than physical ageing.

    FWIW I don’t think you should be castigated for being unfamiliar with Indian customs, I too raised an eyebrow when Modi and Trump could hardly keep their hands off each other 😂


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    #671
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 29,542 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770536#Comment_120770536

    What was the point of all the questions about the hand holding?

    Or else what was it doing on this thread? Either it was irrelevent or an insinuation against Biden that the bizarre behaviour was related to cognitive issues.

    You actually said to a poster who pointed out it could be a cultural norm: "Are there any other straws we can clutch at here?"

    When it now appears thats what you were doing. Clutching at straws to find any ammo against Biden.

    It was put to you that Bidens performance in Ireland showed no signs of a man unfit for office.

    You said:

    "The comparison between his speeches, gait, demeanour etc between then and now is clear evidence of something more than physical ageing."

    When you were asked:

    "What would physical aging alone look like and from what basis do you make such a judgment?"

    No response.

    Lets focus on key phrases there:

    Comparison.

    Clear evidence.

    Sonething more than physical againg.

    You have no evident basis to make these statements of fact. It was just a string of words put together to sound impressive without merit or foundation.

    Rinse and repeat. An obvious hatchet job towards Biden on the flimsiest basis presented as statements of fact.

    What will the next flimsy pretext be that will be jumped on to fling mud at Biden?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #672
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭hometruths



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770647#Comment_120770647

    I simply said the hand holding was very odd in response to another poster who raised it. If you want to know the point of why it was brought up in thread take it up with them. You're objecting to what you think has been inferred.

    You're accusing me of incorrectly making a specific accusation that I've been led by the nose to the answer of. Astrofool calls it a proclamation.

    And yet you're unable to cite this specific accusation.

    Something to bear in mind next time a similar flimsy accusation is posted to the thread. The burden of proof is on those making such accusations.

    I've accused Biden of looking more Presidential, and more switched on, when he was Vice President than when today as President.

    The fact that hand holding is a thing in India, and I was unaware of that, is not evidence that I am wrong to hold the opinion.



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    #673
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770625#Comment_120770625

    Yes, the accusation you've quoted was entirely based on his reaction to the anthem, nothing to do with Indian custom of hand holding.

    On Trump and Modi, I found a good piece with a video of Midi bear hugging him! Article said it was Mod i's version of Macrons ultra firm grip and refusal to let go.

    can't link now as on phone but worth a Google particularly if you haven't seen the video.



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    #674
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 29,542 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770705#Comment_120770705

    No that isnt what you simply said. You referenced the 42 second clip in your accusation of unpresidential behaviour. Not just the opening. The 42 seconds encompasses the hand holding.

    "We're talking about a 42 second clip of the US President in which I think he looks a little lost at best and you think he looks presidential."

    "If you don't think Biden looks presidential in this clip then we're in agreement."

    In the context of this thread it is reasonable to assume that by unpresidential and 'lost' you insinuate and accuse Biden of being unfit for office.

    So it is evidence of the flimsy basis for your Biden critical opinions on this thread that you fail to consider alternative innocent explanations and actually bluntly rejected such explanations as 'clutching at straws'. You demand a level of evidence from others you do not adhere to. We see now who was clutching at opinions based on straw.

    Confirmtion bias in action.

    Also untrue - you did far more than just accuse him of being 'more switched on'.

    You cited previously ... clear evidence of something more than physical aging.

    It was only a few posts back and you are trying to pretend it wasnt what you said.

    Noted you once again dodge the discrediting of your baseless statements of fact about 'clear evidence' of something 'more than physical aging'.

    Trying to play the victim while hurling mud is not a convincing strategy.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #675
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770772#Comment_120770772

    Also untrue - you did far more than just accuse him of being 'more switched on'.

    You cited previously ... clear evidence of something more than physical aging.

    It was only a few posts back and you are trying to pretend it wasnt what you said.

    Noted you once again dodge the discrediting of your baseless statements of fact about 'clear evidence' of something 'more than physical aging'.

    You really don't know when to stop.

    I was not dodging your references to clear evidence, or pretending it wasn't what I said. I ignored your deliberate misrepresentation because I couldn't be bothered getting dragged into your nonsense.

    But to keep you happy I'll address it now. What I ignored was this:

    You said:

    "The comparison between his speeches, gait, demeanour etc between then and now is clear evidence of something more than physical ageing."

    You've obviously copied and pasted that from my post. But interestingly you missed out the start of the sentence and deliberately added a capital letter to change meaning of what I said, which was:

    I still don't think Vice President Joe Biden would have mistaken the Indian national anthem for the US National anthem. Because I think the comparison between his speeches, gait, demeanour etc between then and now is clear evidence of something more than physical ageing.

    Yous said "Lets focus on key phrases".

    Why did you leave out the key phrase "Because I think" if not to change the meaning of what I said?

    I think the comparison between then and now is clear evidence of something more than physical ageing. I think that. It is my opinion. I may be wrong but the custom of hand holding in India sure as hell is not evidence that I am wrong.

    Yes I bluntly rejected the explanation of Indian customs as clutching at straws. It was too hasty. When a second poster suggested the possibility, I thought I better check a little harder.

    When I discovered that I was wrong, i could have simply ignored the post and move on. But instead I picked the best picture of Modi holding hands I could find and posted along with "Fair enough". I did this precisely because I had accused another poster of clutching at straws. If I had not made that remark I probably would have just moved on. But given the clutching at straws remark, I thought it good manners to acknowledge my mistake.

    I notice that the poster I was having the hand holding exchange and I accused of clutching at straws had the good grace and manners to simply acknowledge my post by thanking it rather than making a meal out of it as you did.

    I'll remind you that in between accusing people of making statements of fact with foundation you have been claiming left right and centre that a lot of what other people think is evidence of Biden's cognitive decline are just gaffes caused by his stammer, and when somebody posted a video of Biden himself saying that he is over his stammer, and any mistakes he makes is nothing to do with his stammer your response was:

    That is how Biden sees it. That doesn't make it true. Unless his consultant says the same thing.

    Your credibility for calling out confirmation bias and pompously declaring "You demand a level of evidence from others you do not adhere to" is really not what you think it is.

    I knwo you'll reply to this with another pile of nonsense. I will ignore it. Not because I am dodging the discrediting of my baseless statements, but because I think your posts are utter nonsense blinded by confirmation bias, and I've no interest in getting dragged into a lengthy derailment.

    Trying to hold the moral high ground whilst deliberately misrepresenting others is not a convincing strategy.



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    #676
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 29,542 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770854#Comment_120770854

    The point is that reasonable innocent explanations are suggested - and dismissed out of hand. This posting conduct is reflected in multiple posts by different posters attacking Biden in this manner.

    It should be the other way round. There can be no 'benefit of the doubt' to these attacks on Biden.

    The innocent hand holding episode demonstrates why burden of proof onus sits with those who make these attacks on \ insinuations about Biden. Seemingly unusual behaviour can have innocent explanations not considered at outset.

    And it is confirmation bias that leads to them being used on this thread against Biden.

    You are the one making claims about clear evidence and 'more than physical aging'. Citing 'clear evidence' is a statement of facts regardless of prefixing it with 'I think'. You might suspect or consider it as a possible explanation, that is a totally different type claim. But either you have clear evidence or you don't.

    Across multiple posts, the challenges put to you for such claims were dodged -> proof positive you couldn't stand over them and they were without merit or foundation.

    The burden of proof sits not with those who challenge such claims -> but those who attack Biden in this manner.

    "Pile of nonsense" -> yes that sums up the attacks on Biden on this thread aptly.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #677
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Latest gaffe from Biden comes apace, this time -- referring to Vladimir Putin's "invasion of Iraq" during the Ukraine war.

    As I and others have said, if it were one or even a handful of gaffes, we'd just laugh and turn away. But it's the frequency of these gaffes over time that make many believe he's ill-suited to conduct a second term; that Biden is well beyond his prime.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP9S4cUUWB4




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    #678
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,507 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    "Ill suited" vs. "unsuited" in 2024. Decisions decisions.

    https://www.mediaite.com/politics/msnbcs-mehdi-hasan-laments-biden-is-super-old-and-keeps-forgetting-words-but-argues-hes-still-better-than-trump/

    This is like the 2020 election on repeat: for every pithy attack on Biden, it was ultimately moot because his opponent is equally culpable if not more culpable on these character attacks.



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    #679
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779567#Comment_120779567

    Even if the Republican equivalent were ill-suited to conduct a second term, it wouldn't undermine the legitimacy of the argument about whether Biden should conduct a second term.

    They are two entirely separate questions.



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    #680
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,507 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Ohhh I did notice those CPAP marks

    https://www.mediaite.com/politics/biden-baffles-reporters-with-marks-on-face-bloomberg-breaks-reason-why/

    Meh. Can have apnea from age 2.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779579#Comment_120779579

    No, they are intrinsically linked issues. Don't like it: support Ranked Choice Voting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS2Bsq5PDmU




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    #681
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779585#Comment_120779585

    Joe Biden may very well use a CPAP. Indeed, many people do; sleep apnoea is prevalent in society.

    But what's the relevance, because it seems I've missed it?



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    #682
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,507 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779604#Comment_120779604

    Nothing other than the press is gaggling about it because the markings were on his face at this same gaggle in front of Marine One. And people here seemed eager to want to know the comings and goings on the POTUS medical history.



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    #683
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779612#Comment_120779612

    That's an incidental finding then, in the same way Biden could have been wearing a hat and still have said what he did about the Iraq War.

    What matters is what he said during the gaffe, and these gaffes are far too common to be dismissed as some kind of coincidence.



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    #684
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,507 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779626#Comment_120779626

    Obsession over these gaffes is even more common than the gaffes themselves, you're right maybe that isn't a coincidence...



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    #685
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779637#Comment_120779637

    Let's put it another way, you'd find Biden a far more credible candidate if he did not commit these gaffes on a regular basis. For Democrats who stand fully behind Biden, his conduct is embarrassing -- and so they have to desperately come up with ways of explaining it away.

    Many Democrats, in fact as many as 40+%, do not want Biden to conduct a second term on the basis that they believe that Biden is ill-suited for 4 more years (as much as they dislike the alternative, too).



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    #686
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,507 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779685#Comment_120779685

    Who did you have in mind? 😶



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    #687
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779698#Comment_120779698

    Gavin Newsom could easily become the Bill Clinton of 2024.



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    #688
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,507 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779709#Comment_120779709

    That sounds like a terrible branding idea.



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    #689
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779709#Comment_120779709


    I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt that Bill Clinton wasn’t the role model you had in mind 😂

    Every President, regardless of their political affiliation, has appeared to be more prone to gaffes than the average person, because the average person isn’t under the scrutiny of the media almost 24/7.

    To attempt to use public speaking gaffes in an attempt to undermine a person’s capacity for public office, is more a reflection on the person making the observation, than the person they’re referring to.



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    #690
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779776#Comment_120779776

    When I mentioned Bill Clinton, I was referring to his ability to work with both sides -- Democrats and Republicans, to achieve some kind of reform.

    Not always of course, but at least possible.

    is more a reflection on the person making the observation, than the person they’re referring to.

    All US presidents have gaffes.

    Biden has gaffes every day, that's the issue.



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    #691
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,507 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779783#Comment_120779783

    Bill also worked with both sides of his secretary. The reference you made was ambiguous...



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