Time for a zero refugee policy? - Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24

paxreseuropa · 26-06-2023 7:48pm

I have the deepest sympathy for genuine refugees who's lives are at risk in their home countries and we must endeavor to help these folks whenever possible. However, the current bus loads of adult males that are becoming a regular feature at our ports of entry over the past year now are not to be welcomed. People are rightly outraged and afraid. It beggars belief that we are willingly allowing hundreds and thousands of adult males entry onto our streets, men who's backgrounds we know nothing of, men who due to their upbringing have little respect for women and children, nor for local laws and customs. They are not even being housed in refugee camps, they are being let to roam freely within society and sleeping on the streets, exacerbating our homeless issue and the ongoing housing crisis.

I have absolutely no issue with genuine refugees, and I am pro-immigration. I think immigrants are fantastic and proactively enhance and add to our country and our culture; there is nothing more wonderful than sharing cultures and experiences with one another. But we cannot continue to operate under the current regime where even when an individual is issued with a deportation order we cannot expel them from the country; it is an absolute mockery of our judicial system and laws.

And to make matters worse I am at a loss to find any of the current major political parties to take a principled stand on this issue in line with common sense and general public sentiment. The only parties seeming to take a stand on this issue are regrettably extreme right-wing nationalist parties, which are against immigration and multiculturalism on a whole, and these individuals must be kept out of office at all costs; but I am afraid that if the present government and the most likely next government continue on the current path of complete open borders then we will see a rise in right-wing conservative nationalism and increased incidents of hate speech and racist attacks.

We must get a hold of this now and approach it with common sense before it spirals out of control and it ends in violence and the rise of nationalism.

Stephen_Maturin · 26-06-2023 8:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769479#Comment_120769479

But their taxes do pay for the social housing and welfare allocated to them. Is it unreasonable in a democracy to expect some input into how the government allocates and spends that tax money?

Annasopra · 26-06-2023 8:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769677#Comment_120769677

Who says Ukrainians don't need extra supports with the trauma of escaping war.

I agree with @Goldengirl here. Not a legitimate question.

Goldengirl · 26-06-2023 8:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769677#Comment_120769677

It is not a legitimate OR appropriate question.

You have summed it up there in your answer . It's not within everyone's gift or ability to house anyone homeless or refugee.

Some people , yes , but landlords or others who have done, have been accused of money grabbing by posters here.

So what's the next statement going to be .." you are a hypocrite" as per the poster up above ? " You have loads of money you can afford to be liberal " as another said .

Well if that is the case , let noone discuss homeless people unless they go out and look after them themselves , never mind the issues , there are supports available as you know ..

You're the first person to say' homelessness is stable ' on the thread! Lol.

Let noone talk about violence unless they go out and help the victims of abuse and rape.

The next person who talks about home improvements for disability or accomodation for students will be asked " what are You doing about those issues "?

You see it's a bit ridiculous isn't it ?

Likewise nobody here knows what anyone else actually does ? ( Apart from one or two who can mindread, it seems)

How do you know if people are volunteering or not on an anonymous forum ?

Frankly it is none of your business , and I question your right to ask people personal questions like that on a discussion forum.

Juran · 26-06-2023 8:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769452#Comment_120769452

If i want to live in Oz, i need to aaply for a visa. If i board a plane in Dublin, London, Dubai, without a visa, I will refused boarding. If I arrive in Oz without the correct working visa, I will be sent back.

Same with the US, each time I go, the airline and immigration check with visa status. If its not correct, Its straight back or refused boarding.

Thousands are coming here to work and claiming Asylum / Refugee status, knowing if they hang on in there in DP for a few years (fully paid for - accomidation, food, healthcare, bit of pocket money), they wont be deported and can apply for citizenship. Sure thats why they are queing to get in here.

Goldengirl · 26-06-2023 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769805#Comment_120769805

Asylum seeking is a different situation to people migrating for work . Whether you think that is what they are doing or not.

You don't apply for a Visa if you are seeking asylum . You are talking about apples and oranges here .

Asylum seeker = refugee , once granted, hence the title of the thread ^^

We would all like to have the Australian system of visas here for migrants. Or better still we'd all like to go there ourselves!

Goldengirl · 26-06-2023 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769690#Comment_120769690

Whatever exactly are you concerned about ?

Busloads of males , " hundreds and thousands of them on the streets " , women and children , or the rise of nationalism?

Genuine question 🤔

Goldengirl · 26-06-2023 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769747#Comment_120769747

Also funded via the EU ...did we not talk about this yesterday, or wait the day before, deja vu ?

suvigirl · 26-06-2023 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769805#Comment_120769805

You can claim asylum in the USA or Australia. You don't if you want to go live and work there. In answer to your question people who want to come live and work here apply for visas. Why would they apply for asylum?

ParkRunner · 26-06-2023 8:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769801#Comment_120769801

A poster doesn’t have to answer the question. If they want to answer it is none of my business that’s fine, it’s just a discussion.

In relation to homelessness I said the numbers are relatively stable. This is compared to the number of refugees/international protection applicants which have massively spiked in the last 2 years, requiring approx €3bn additional expenditure this year.

Having people arriving and being left in tents or adding to homelessness is not a good solution for anyone but we could see more and more of this if the numbers arriving continue at current levels.

Annasopra · 26-06-2023 8:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769961#Comment_120769961

They have been increasing year on year. That isn't stable.

TokTik · 26-06-2023 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769452#Comment_120769452

I would imagine because they don’t qualify for visas and see Ireland as a soft touch. No qualification, no problem. I’ve no third level qualifications so could only do 1 year in Oz as I couldn’t find sponsorship. If I thought I’d be given free rein without any consequences, I’d fly back out tomorrow.

Juran · 26-06-2023 9:11pm

Ok. I've come to realize two posters here don't want to accept that the current uncontrolled migration via illegal AS system does not benefit the country, economy or safety of citizens ( women in particular). So no point in conversing with them.

I own my house, fully paid for - would I take in an AS or refugee ? No. My choice. Thats what its all about, CHOICE. Hope it reflects in the next election. Though I fear there is no alternative right now in politics.

Goldengirl · 26-06-2023 9:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770099#Comment_120770099

Really ? Can you not do 3 months rural work to extend for another year? Holiday Visa.

TokTik · 26-06-2023 9:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770132#Comment_120770132

No, I was over there years ago. That only came into effect in about 2009/10 I think.

Stephen_Maturin · 26-06-2023 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769921#Comment_120769921

Nope, not with me

Goldengirl · 26-06-2023 9:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770175#Comment_120770175

Beg your pardon. It was with Kaiser , but 2 posts up and 5 minutes before your post .

Goldengirl · 26-06-2023 9:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770144#Comment_120770144

It's a good system , for Australia .

JP Liz V1 · 26-06-2023 10:55pm

I hope the Ukrainian theatre actor attacked in Dublin will be OK and the culprits caught asap

The modular homes in Mahon Cork is ready for Ukrainian refugees, if only quick homes could go up for everyone here too in need

superbatman · 27-06-2023 4:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120766496#Comment_120766496

And there it is. No everyone else can see that you like to paint people with your very tired brush.

You don't listen to anyone's concerns, you don't listen to facts people give you,you just find ways to revert to your point which is what? That we should have no issues of 100's of men going into tiny villages around Ireland?

The reality is most of Ireland are tired of it so if you wanna imply people who have this view are bigots etc then go ahead but it really is a boring way to try and argue your point, it's become a trope at this point.

Mr. teddywinkles · 27-06-2023 7:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120764246#Comment_120764246

No expenses spared. Pack them in there.

silverharp · 27-06-2023 7:32am

ow well, at least its for a good casue

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1673497900461207554

titan18 · 27-06-2023 7:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771097#Comment_120771097

Wonder how many more will go like that? Already had the ones in Sligo and now this

suvigirl · 27-06-2023 8:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771000#Comment_120771000

What exactly is your issue with men?

You used to complain about certain cultures, now you're complaining about men.

Can you spell out why you are afraid of men and how you manage to live life with such a dibiliatating illness.

Although, tbf, most women in this country who are raped and murdered, it is by men that are known to them, like husbands, partners, family members, so maybe you are right......

Patrick2010 · 27-06-2023 9:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771113#Comment_120771113

Student accommodation, nursing homes, 55000 in hotel rooms, where else can we put Ukrainians who are still arriving at the rate of 500/600 a week according to O Gorman

jack of all · 27-06-2023 9:59am

I've been following this thread for a long time and I am angered by some of the nonsense spouted by the same few posters, who see no problem with our unfettered approach to immigration. We have finite resources, especially in terms of housing, schools, hospitals and GP care. It appears these posters would have us believe that a huge increase in population over a short period is not a problem, nothing to see here. Where are the new intake of third level students going to stay in September (my eldest child will be amongst them), where will the future doctors, nurses, teachers, plumbers, mechanics etc come from if they cannot get student accommodation now? The country's young people have been sold down the river with this bs. We should be putting our own first. As a taxpayer of 30 years I feel no obligation towards anyone arriving on these shores from far flung corners of the world. It's not racism, it's simply looking out for your own and there's nothing wrong with that.

ArthurDayne · 27-06-2023 10:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771000#Comment_120771000

But I do think that a lot of the people on this thread, who seem to hold themselves out as just being common sense realists, appear to have a very distinct lack of grasp on reality.

The reality is that, on top of all the other refugees in this world, 8 million people fleeing Ukraine have been recorded across Europe. Take away the 2.5-3 million who are believed to be in Russia you have around 5 million fleeing into Central and Western Europe. Where do you propose these 5 million could have been safely filed away in a manner that presented no downsides for anyone? Let Poland deal with it alone and house 5 million people? Militarise the Ukrainian border so no refugees could escape and let Ukraine risk handling an unbelievable humanitarian crisis on its Western borders while also juggling the small matter of fighting off a hostile military invasion by a mechanised Russian war machine in the east and in the skies?

You have people on here singing the praises of the Danes for their apparently common sense strategy, all in total ignorance of the fact that Denmark has been a net contributor to hosting refugees for some time. And yet, in Ireland's first real experience as a wealthy country of feeling the strain of handling a huge displacement of European people — well — suddenly people believe start making an equivalence.

There seem to be a lot of "realists" on here who believe that Ireland can forever accept only the benefits of participating in the international community (foreign investment, Western capitalism, global supply chains, the ability of our citizens to travel and relocate, the resources / food / energy mined or sourced from other countries) but perpetually avoid any of the other components of the term "international community" that have negative or unfair outcomes for Ireland — or which can't be carefully executed and planned out to perfection by ministers.

Patrick2010 · 27-06-2023 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771614#Comment_120771614

Maybe a crazy idea would be European countries taking in equal numbers relative to their size and offer the exact same benefits. Ireland is the most generous offering full meals, accommodation and full social welfare. Heres the latest breakdown of numbers of Ukrainian refugees around Europe I can find :

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1312584/ukrainian-refugees-by-country/

Ireland 82k population 5 million

France 118k population 68 million

Belgium 71k population 12 million

Holland 89k population 18 million

Sweden 53 k Population 10 million

Denmark 41k population 6 million

Finland 47k population 5.5 million

Norway 45k population 5.5 million

etc etc but we're told we must do more , live up to our obligations or we'll be fined. How do these other countries get away with not living up to their obligations?

marno21 · 27-06-2023 10:44am

Ireland has a housing crisis, which can be simply summed up in one sentence. Since recovering from the recession, demand for housing has vastly exceeded supply. There are several reasons for this, Irish diaspora returning now that times are better, the construction industry being decimated during 2009-2014, the hangover of fear and risk aversion from the crash etc. One of the reasons demand is exceeding supply is because of legal immigration, a lot of people choose to come to Ireland because it's a wonderful country with great opportunities, and in the last few years has also become a global beacon of liberty. We have an enormous number of selling points for the country.

Meanwhile, we have taken in over 100,000 refugees, both temporary protection (Ukraine) and international protection (asylum seekers) in the last 1-2 years. Many of the former are seeking temporary accommodation, many of the latter would like to stay. The simple fact is we have a deficit of thousands of houses that is being unfilled without the additional arrivals, and this is only going to get worse in coming years as the deficit widens. Therefore, for the next few years, the housing crisis is effectively unsolvable and we are sprinting to stand still. Sinn Fein or whatever pinkos are running against FF/FG are not going to be able to address this either. The main issue for housing development is a shortage of labour and unless they find a way to cultivate labour nothing will change. We already have one set of pinkos in Government (the Green ones) and their contributions don't seem to be making much of a contribution to solving the issue from what I can see. It is a simple fact that adding 100,000 people to the country's population is going to exacerbate the housing crisis, when we already have a shortage of houses.

You'll notice that I haven't mentioned race, country of origin, age, or any features of the individuals themselves. Because this has nothing to do with race, that's a different discussion altogether. But I do notice now there are weekly outbreaks of disquiet around the country, Magowna, Turnapin, and now the student accommodation in Sligo and now Cork. There are real people (read: voters) affected in all these situations, and if these outbreaks of anger continue they won't be long adding up at the next election. An election fought on the politics of immigration is something we've managed to avoid thankfully in this country until now but I fear our run has come to an end. When students are being told there is no accommodation for them for next semester because of this entirely foreseeable shitshow it starts affecting people rightly, rather than disquiet about national numbers.

The vast majority of people in this country do not want a "zero refugee policy". Nor do they want any radical, unhumanitarian approaches as you see trumpeted in other countries. But go around the country and poll 2020 FG/FF voters and ask how many of them wanted the current situation we see. I'd imagine the numbers would be quite low.

Loafing Oaf · 27-06-2023 10:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771738#Comment_120771738

There are real people (read: voters) affected in all these situations, and if these outbreaks of anger continue they won't be long adding up at the next election. An election fought on the politics of immigration is something we've managed to avoid thankfully in this country until now but I fear our run has come to an end.

But again we come back to the question of who is a clear alternative on immigration. If all siginificant parties are on more or less the same page I don't see how we get "an election fought on the politics of immigration."

Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

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Time for a zero refugee policy? - Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24