Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

I may need to have a lie down, but I fully agree with all of this.

Where we may disagree is that I think the SF bubble bursting could well lead to more of a sanitisation of the Unification discussion. While I don't think it is quite to the same extent as how beneficial DUP regularly are for the Unification cause, ultimately I think SF often do more harm than good for it.

Their refusal to sign the letter, which looks like a small thing, will go down as a bad mistake.

Thanks fionn. I might also need a lie down

The Sunday life. The daily mail of OWC.

so this clickbait story leads you to believe all bonfires are funded by cocaine??

it’s only a few posts ago you told us all the pallets were stolen. Which is it?

Francie. Firstly, this is nothing to do with the thread. But until we are told to get back on thread, tell me about part of your culture you are proud of and give me a wee while to find some horrible stuff about it and I’ll post for you. You are just anti prod, anti British, anti unionist. Here’s one from today to get you started

And this guy is always a good representation of the old republicans. He has a new one every week. I am sure he fills you with pride.

That is nothing to do with me. I never supported anything like that or claim it as my culture.

The story linked is actually from the Bel Tel, Downcow. Hardly a Republican Propaganda outlet.

As a matter of interest, do we have any poll figures on the voting preferences of people who identify as Northern Irish?

I just asked chatgpt there and am posting its first answer unedited. It couldn’t find data on northern irish specifically, but I thought it’s response was interesting (of course, I’ll admit I liked its answer, hence posting) and I am not suggesting it is definitive.

How do the polls suggest people in ni who class themselves as northern Irish vote?

ChatGPT

Finished browsing

I'm sorry, but I was unable to find specific polling data on how people in Northern Ireland who identify themselves as "Northern Irish" tend to vote. The polling data I found does not appear to break down the results by this specific demographic group.

However, I did find some general polling data that might be of interest. A recent poll shows that almost twice as many voters in Northern Ireland who expressed a preference want to remain in the United Kingdom. Half of all respondents (50 per cent) in Northern Ireland said they would vote against Irish unity, which included 21 per cent of those from a Catholic background. Just over a quarter (26 per cent) in the North said they would vote for unity, while 19 per cent said they didn’t know how they would vote and 5 per cent said they would not vote. The strongest opposition to unity was among those of a Protestant background (78 per cent). Those of a Catholic background were most in favour of unity, though only just over half (54 per cent) of all Catholic respondents said they would vote in favour, with 21 per cent against and 22 per cent undecided​1​.

It is important to note that these results do not directly answer your question, as they don't provide information on the voting preferences of those who identify specifically as "Northern Irish". For a more precise answer, a more targeted poll focusing on this demographic would be needed.

And one last supplementary, which I think is very fair - and again I post warts and all, unedited.

Is it true that 18-24yr-olds often are more radical and prepared for radical change and as they get older they often become more settled and accepting of the status quo, and if so, how might this phenomenon affect future polling?

ChatGPT

Yes, there is a well-documented pattern in social science research indicating that younger individuals, including those in the 18-24 age range, are often more open to radical change and hold more progressive or liberal views compared to older adults. This has been observed across a variety of issues, including political, social, and economic change.

This phenomenon is often attributed to a combination of factors:

1. Life Stage: Young adulthood is a period of exploration and identity formation, where individuals are more likely to question established norms and consider alternative viewpoints.
2. Generational Shifts: Each generation grows up in a unique historical context, which shapes their collective attitudes. For instance, today's young adults have grown up in a more globally connected and diverse world, which may make them more open to change.
3. Cognitive Flexibility: Younger individuals are generally more cognitively flexible, which can make them more open to new ideas and less attached to the status quo.

However, it's also true that people often become more conservative or accepting of the status quo as they age. This can be due to a variety of factors, including increased responsibilities (like jobs, families, and homeownership), accumulating wealth and therefore having more to lose from radical change, and cognitive changes associated with aging.

Applying these patterns to the question of Irish unity, it's possible that while younger individuals are currently more supportive of unity, this support may decrease as they get older. However, it's also important to note that this is not a guaranteed outcome. The specifics of how attitudes change over time can be influenced by a wide range of factors, including shifts in the broader political, economic, and social context.

Moreover, it's worth noting that these are general trends and there can be significant variability within age groups. Not all young people are radicals, and not all older people are conservatives. Political and social attitudes are shaped by a complex interplay of factors, including individual experiences, socioeconomic status, education, and cultural context.

Lastly, the specific issue of Irish unity is influenced by a unique set of historical, political, and cultural factors that may not follow the same patterns as other types of social change. For example, the impact of Brexit, changing demographics, and ongoing political debates about the future of Northern Ireland may all play a role in shaping attitudes towards Irish unity over time.

…..and I couldn’t resist a final supplementary, but chatgpt won’t be sucked into taking sides, but advice is sound.

Thanks, that’s very interesting. I am on an online forum which includes a few extremely belligerent Irish republicans. I struggle with their inability to have any empathy with the few unionist posters on the forum. Have you any advice what I could say to help them be more open to others views?

ChatGPT

Engaging in a productive dialogue, especially on sensitive topics like politics or identity, can be challenging, particularly in online environments where anonymity and distance can sometimes lead to more aggressive or polarized discussions. Here are a few suggestions:

1. Promote Empathy: Encourage participants to try to understand where others are coming from. This doesn't mean agreeing with them, but simply acknowledging their experiences and feelings as valid. You can lead by example, showing empathy in your own posts and responses.
2. Focus on Common Ground: Try to identify shared interests or concerns that transcend political lines. This could be a shared love for the region, a common desire for peace, or shared concerns about specific issues (like the economy, healthcare, education, etc.).
3. Encourage Active Listening: Promote the idea of active listening, which involves reading or listening to others' viewpoints thoroughly before formulating a response. Encourage others to consider and address the arguments being made, rather than resorting to personal attacks or dismissing others' views outright.
4. Cultivate a Respectful Environment: Encourage a tone of respect and civility. This could involve setting clear guidelines for discussion (if you have the ability to do so) or simply modeling respectful dialogue in your own interactions.
5. Avoid "Us vs. Them" Thinking: Encourage a perspective that avoids seeing the other side as a monolithic group. Remind participants that there is a wide range of opinions and experiences within any group, and it's not fair or accurate to make sweeping generalizations.
6. Promote Learning: Remind others that the purpose of the discussion is not to "win" an argument but to learn from each other's perspectives. Encourage a curiosity and openness to learning.
7. Ask Open-Ended Questions: Instead of making statements that can lead to defensiveness, try asking open-ended questions that encourage reflection and deeper understanding.

Remember, changing attitudes and behaviors takes time, and not everyone may be open to dialogue. The goal isn't necessarily to change minds, but to promote a more respectful and understanding conversation.

I think we have discovered where Unionist strategy has come from. 🙄

This is from 2015 but it was clear even then that this identity is split along traditional lines and really isn't a homogenous identity in a political context.

northern_ireland_identity_garry_mcnicholl_policy_document.pdf (niassembly.gov.uk)

Downcow, I work in the field. It isn't as impressive as you think it is. To be clear, I'm not coalface; I haven't written a line of code in many years, but I'm dealing with Machine Learning on a daily basis.

Honestly, using it the way you are trying to demonstrates very clearly that you don't understand it half as well as you seem to think you do.

You've presented us with several walls of text that you didn't write. Why would I offer a disagreement? I haven't and won't even read the posts beyond you telling us you had decided to ask ChatGPT some questions.

Why don't you put your answers back into ChatGPT and ask it to disagree with you if that is the level debate is reduced to? It certainly can be used to save time, but why the hell would anyone spend time responding to your posts when you can't even be arsed writing them?

Also, the word you're looking for is fallibility. When you said you began by accepting it's infallibility, you meant the opposite.