Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

i think your definitely of 'elite' is alot more generous than most people

It also means that no one ever leaves leinster because it is literally a bad career decision to do so. Way down the depth chart in leinster and always being in a winning team is better than maybe losing games, or playing in a weaker pack or adapting to a different way of playing in a different province.

How many players are consistently starting for a province, not getting picked for Ireland, but would get a better deal elsewhere?

The number is very low single figures, if not zero.

You could include Healy too who may not have been a certain starter but is a player who would have stayed at Munster if he had a chance at playing for Ireland and one who more than contributed to our success at getting silverware this year.

A better deal in terms of money? Coombes could absolutely earn more money in France than he currently does in Ireland. Hodnett probably could as well, if he has another season next year like he did this year he absolutely could.

could argue john ryan deserved more of a chance with ireland too, rather than shoehorning porter into tighthead

donnacha ryan and zebo got a bit of a poor deal with the previous management too and went elsewhere

and i didnt say a better deal, i said they might look elsewhere

At the end of the day theres about 20 players on the Island of Ireland who are underpaid and accepting being underpaid because they hope to break into the international squad and get international appearance money.

Some are slightly underpaid and some are significantly underpaid (imo but i can only guess).

Remember international money for Irish internationals is about 8K a game and 8K a win with bonuses for achievements (like a grand slam). Sometimes it doesn't pay off for Ireland (and the related provinces).

Being a fringe international in and out of a squad but getting 2-3 caps is enough that none of those 7 or 8 players would get a better deal elsewhere.

Like you, I have no idea what players are on but the carrot of staying at home seems to be getting to be less of a carrot for some players. Zebo, Ryan, Sexton have shown you can go abroad and survive. The lure of staying at home while not making international squads isn't as good as some might want you to believe, Healy being an example here. Kleyn is another example of a guy who's not happy to be just a provincial player though obviously not a home IQ player.

Should the IRFU be concerned about the possible loss of players once they see they're not making a 42man Irish squad? What's the draw of staying at home on a contract that was historically known as a reduced contract because Ireland had better player welfare and you get to play for your country.

What happens to the provinces of we start to lose players of the caliber of Kleyn & Healy.

nothing to do with the IRFU? thats not how irish rugby works

2017 was the first time D Ryan was a somewhat consistent starter for ireland under JS, at which point id imagine his move was already at least on the cards, if not done already-which in fairness is strange given that such players are usually jettisoned quickly

zebo got more gametime for ireland (which he deserved) but i always got the impression JS would drop him given half an opportunity

do i think it will become an epidemic of players leaving? no. but it could potentially mean losing a couple of decent to high level players

frawley is somewhere around 3/4th choice at 10, 4/5th at centre and 4th/5th at 15, to name one

hes not involved at the moment, but harry byrne was generally 3rd choice at leinster while he was involved (or 4th if CF was the 3rd choice)

players further down the depth chart than possibly ever previously are getting a look in

Isn't that a good thing?

Should we have gone back to Burns or Carty when we needed an out half back in November? They're regular provincial starters, Crowley was third choice for Munster. Of course not.

If Farrell or POC or Catt or whoever can see something in a player, regardless of where he stands at his own province, why on earth would they ignore that just to keep some other bloke happy?

Frawley is at worst third choice in the centre, and if he's third choice then Osborne must be second choice (or vice versa).

Edit: and even if Frawley is 4th choice 10, who's he keeping out? Carbery? I think he has bigger things to worry about.

its not necessarily a bad thing, but as other posters have pointed out, exposure to high level games counts for something. yes, crowley came in v aus and did well, if it were a rwc game at that time then yes i definitely would have said bring in carty

why would osbourne have to be second choice when ngatai was ahead of both of them?

could even argue he was 5th behind prendergast?